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When to add small outworld vs move to a nest


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#1 Offline PDuncan67 - Posted January 17 2024 - 1:34 PM

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Hello.  Right now I have all my ants in test tubes.  Feeding is not a problem at this time - my Camponotus floridanus has about 8 workers and I have almost that many in brood.  I know at some point I will need to do something.
I picked up a few of these mini outworlds for a few bucks and had these temp/humidity gauges from another project.  Anyway - the holes lined up so I thought I'd see how that goes.  The monitor is not the most accurate and has pretty bad resolution, but its more a pass/fail indicator for me.  I guess i'm saying I have better temperature monitoring than this in place.

 

My question - once feeding them in a test tube begins to become tedious, would adding something like this for a few months work?  I really want to give my ants the best start I can before I move them to a nest.

Is a mini-outworld such as this OK as a step between test tube (only) and moving them to a nest?

 

 

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Location: West Tennessee, USA
Colonies: Lasius neoniger, Messor barbarus, Camponotus floridanus


#2 Offline Full_Frontal_Yeti - Posted January 17 2024 - 2:53 PM

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I'd say you can't give them too much outworld, just too much nest.

Wild, their nest would only be dug out as big as they want, expanded as needed but kept fairly tight to their colony size.
And when wild their "outworld" is planet earth.

So while we could put them in too much nest space they will not like and fill with refuse. We can't give them too much outworld space. If it is "outside" from their POV, then it is, and we can't give them more of that then they would have in nature.

 

A move i see many make is  "tub n tubes" which is just placing the test tube nest into an "outworld" that can accommodate it. So you don't have to change out their nest yet while giving them a larger outworld.

If you planned it, the outworld could have a nest port in it already. When it's time to move into a bigger nest, just hook one up and let them move themselves into it as the test tube is allowed to dry out into a less desirable nest than the one you connect later.

 

example of tub n tube setup

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Edited by Full_Frontal_Yeti, January 17 2024 - 2:53 PM.

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#3 Online rptraut - Posted January 18 2024 - 3:56 AM

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Hello PDuncan67;

 

I think small cubes are the right way to go if you want to easily transition from a test tube setup to a larger formicarium.   FFY is right when he says that outworlds are better bigger, especially with larger colonies.   But many of my small colonies are often shy and would rather hide in the vegetation and take their food under cover.   They appreciate the smaller space.  This describes the two Lasius colonies that are housed in the formicaria below.   You will find photos and descriptions of more of my cube founding formicaria here:             Pictures of Formicariums and Outworlds - Page 41 - General Ant Keeping - Ants & Myrmecology Forum (formiculture.com)

 

I use these same setups for semi-claustral queens, and in spring, I connect them to Tapinoma and Myrmica colonies.  Often, one or more queens will move in and set up a new colony.

 

 

This cube is being used for a Lasius niger colony.

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I've used these cubes as mini outworlds for founding colonies right from the start.   I've used them for Camponotus founding colonies with great results.  They usually retreat into the test tube when I feed them and come right back out when I'm done.  It makes feeding so much easier.  The one main component that I put in all of them is a hydration sponge, (you'll maybe see them in the following pictures), that I hydrate through the tube you see in front.   Good ventilation is important if you want the ants to treat it like an outworld, so I have large holes covered with screens.  You can also see the feeding tray and two small pieces of sponge that hold sugar/water and water. 

 

 

 

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I started adding a few small test tubes or bottles to one side and covering them in sphagnum moss for the ants to move into.  I'll often put them on the sponge.  Then I cover the whole issue with a piece of green moss and sometimes it won't stay where I want it, so I use a great big ugly gob of glue to hold it in place as you can see.  The tubes or bottles provide a familiar environment like a test tube for the ants to move into.  What I've found is that ants will often move larger larvae, pupae or cocoons, into these tubes or bottles, usually because it's warmer than the test tube from sitting in my partly sunny window.  The queen will often stay behind in the moldy test tube, tending her little pile of eggs until workers take them and the queen to her new quarters when they're ready to move.  Or I will coax her out with a small paint brush when I get tired of waiting.  

 

The red cover helps disturb the ants less while viewing (I find it works very well for Camponotus) and the blackout cover goes on to keep the nest dark.  Magnets hold the blackout cover and I use brown plasticine to marry the test tube with the tubing of the cube.  

 

 

 

This setup is being used for a Lasius neoniger colony.

IMG_7782.JPG

 

This setup has all the basic elements as the first one, with one exception.  Most of the space in the outworld is taken up by a rock.  Although it looks like a large space, the rock takes up most of it.  This takes full advantage of the three-dimensional space inside the container.  The rock is a great heat sink.  I keep this setup on a partly sunny window shelf and the sun warms it nicely.  I worry about overheating, so I use shades, but I've seen that the rock absorbs a lot of the heat and moderates the temperature rise.  It releases that heat at night keeping the colony warm.  

 

 

 

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I've put some bottles in the back in the space between the rock and the acrylic.  

 

 

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For many of them I install a feeding port so I can feed them without struggling to get a tight-fitting lid off.  It's from a plastic container with a screw top; I cut the top and threaded neck off and glue it in a tight-fitting hole.  Now all I do is unscrew the top and it's feeding time.  I put mineral oil for containment around the inside of the feeding port when the population gets high enough that the ants try to escape. 

 

 

 

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By now I hope you recognize the basic elements and how the cube is laid out.  This founding formicarium is ready and waiting for the Prenolepis imparis colony that I'm expecting to arrive this week.  I've used even smaller cubes and screw top containers for outworlds with very small ants.  Small cubes like these are all I use to house many of my Temnothorax colonies.  I use cubes that only have a hydration sponge in them to keep some colonies just because it is so much easier to feed and water them compared to feeding them in the test tube which I find very difficult.  

 

 

 

IMG_7403 - Copy.JPG

 

One last example of a small colony and their setup.  Once a colony has moved into the cube, I can continue to tend them with no interruption.  When it's time for something bigger, the cube is small enough that it can be put into a larger setup with the lid off.   Or it can be connected by tubing and away you go.  The real beauty of this system is that I can take the tubes or bottles out, with the ants inside, and put them directly into a bigger setup.  I do this at night or whenever everybody's at home and I dump the stragglers in.   I design the new setups to accept the bottles for a smooth transfer.  

 

I think you're on the right track using small cubes to ease the transition between a test tube and a formicarium.  I just call it a founding formicarium.

RPT


Edited by rptraut, January 19 2024 - 4:00 AM.

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#4 Offline PDuncan67 - Posted January 18 2024 - 7:21 AM

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For many of them I install a feeding port so I can feed them without struggling to get a tight-fitting lid off.

 Thank you and @FFY!  - I really like your feeding port


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Location: West Tennessee, USA
Colonies: Lasius neoniger, Messor barbarus, Camponotus floridanus


#5 Online rptraut - Posted January 19 2024 - 2:42 AM

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Hello PDuncan67:

 

The feeding port is one of the additions to a formicarium that has saved me more time and aggravation than anything else.  These small formicaria are precariously attached to a test tube with a tight-fitting lid and skittish ants.   I always have trouble holding things while I wrestle with the lid, all the time trying to not to shake and terrorize the ants.  Formicaria with feeding ports sit on my shelf facing out, so feeding is a simple matter of unscrewing the lid with one hand, pulling the old feed tray out and putting a freshly loaded tray back in.  Skittish ants get used to the routine and head for cover when I take the lid off, but they soon return when I'm done.   I usually just blow on any ants that are reluctant to leave the feeder or I can put it aside and get it later when they're enjoying fresh water and sugar/water.  Screw the lid back on, hydrate via the tube in front and you're done.  

 

 The port is helpful for cleaning as well.   I've found that if I install the port close to the bottom of the formicarium and put something as a barrier like Vaseline or mineral oil on the inside, that some ants will bring their trash and leave it at the port.  Tetramorium and Tapinoma are particularly good at this, and it makes cleanup a breeze.  I simply wipe it out with a paper towel before I begin feeding.  

I mentioned about shy ants wanting to dine under cover.  For those colonies I place their protein through the feeding port and then place the feeding tray on top of it.   I was surprised how this little thing increased the amount of food a small Lasius brevicornis colony took compared to a similar sized colony that I fed in the open. 

 

I've made a separate post about the making of the feeding port.   Find it here   Make a Feeding Port - General Ant Keeping - Ants & Myrmecology Forum (formiculture.com)

 

Here are a few more examples of formicaria and colonies using small cubes.  This one is a housing a Temnothorax colony.  

 

IMG_7739.JPG

 

I sometimes attach a bottle to the outside for the founding colony.  This colony had much more moss and chips to play in originally, but they wouldn't behave and tried to move out into the moss, so I removed most of it and they now have a bare bones outworld, at least for winter.  A sponge for hydration and a feeding tray is as basic as my outworlds get.   

 

 

 

 

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This is for a really small Temnothorax colony, an even smaller outworld.  

 

 

 

 

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I attached this small cube to a thriving Myrmica colony in spring.  Queens will often move into these and start a new colony so that it can be split off in the fall.  I do this with Tapinoma colonies as well.

 

The use of these small cubes is only limited by your imagination.  Whether you're keeping small ants or small colonies there is a point between the test tube and a full blown formicarium where they can give your ants a chance to grow into a nice sized colony while saving you a lot of time and effort.  

RPT


Edited by rptraut, January 19 2024 - 4:04 AM.

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#6 Offline Rrar - Posted January 19 2024 - 3:36 PM

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Also, you should be aware that sometimes monitors are totally off track. I have one that broke because I left it in the garage for just a couple minutes.


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canada = boring!!!!!

I want attaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

also: Camponotus ca02 ( probably not possible though)


#7 Offline Mushu - Posted January 19 2024 - 6:48 PM

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I find it definitely helps especially if your colony is at a size itching to go out and forage and every time you feed through tube a few gets loose.

That’s a clean mini outworld as it appears to also have a holder for your test tube. I prefer a larger outworld where I can just put in water + nectar feeder + plate with my hand instead of needing to use tweezer. I’m a fan of larger out worlds in general as I had a 10 gallon for my Pogonomyrmex even during founding and they had no issues foraging with a few workers and plan to make a 20 gallon outworld for my My. Placodops(from Drew, thanks Drew!).

I also put the test tube through a shoebox(yep I’m ghetto) through the end so I can keep the heat steadier at 80-85 as it’s a bit colder right now and connection to outworld on the other. The tube is tied to a foam to align as best as I can with the outworld. I put sand in the front  where it’s connected to close the entrance to the tube to enclose the entrance a bit more and so I can push some sand inside for the pupae to cocoon. It has made life much easier to feed/clean and they seem happy.

Just don’t be like me and think you put enough Fluon as apparently with enough willpower ants always find a way out even though I had a cover.Either they got through the tube/outworks connection(plugged up right with cotton now) or the vent in the cover(I cover with cotton instead of a loose mesh as I thought I put enough Fluon) which is harder.


Edited by Mushu, January 20 2024 - 2:12 AM.

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#8 Online rptraut - Posted January 19 2024 - 7:01 PM

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Hello Rrar;

 

If you're talking about thermometers (temperature) and hygrometers (humidity), I have two different ones there for that reason.  The frog keeps the ant population under control.

RPT


My father always said I had ants in my pants.

#9 Online rptraut - Posted January 19 2024 - 7:57 PM

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Hello Mushu;

 

Glad to hear you like the setups.  The small outworlds work well with my ants that are small and shy or any kind of ant that just wants to get food and take it back to the colony and look after brood.  I use them for Lasius, Myrmica, Tapinoma, and Camponotus founding colonies.    These girls just want to get food and take it back to their brood, they're not really interested in foraging so a larger outworld is really a waste of space.  I'll give that to them when they're ready.

 

There's no actual holder for the test tube.  I use plasticine, some call it modeling clay.  I form it around the outside at the base of the vinyl tube I'm joining the test tube onto.  I push the test tube onto that clay and then form more around it to ensure that it's tight all the way around, making it relatively stable and the ants can't escape.  In this way it's possible to join different sized test tubes and tubing together for a short term or temporary connection. 

 

If you tip the test tube slightly downward as you form the clay, the water won't be as liable to flood your ants if they chew through the cotton, making it less risky to leave it attached for a longer period.  At this stage, all you want the water in the test tube to do is humidify the test tube.  You'll be providing the ants with sugar/water and drinking water in the outworld.  If the test tube cotton dries that'll be one more incentive for the ants to move out.  

RPT


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#10 Offline Mushu - Posted January 19 2024 - 11:10 PM

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Indeed a smaller outworld is fine, I just prefer it not necessarily a 10 gallon(that’s for a larger colony) for a staring colony but larger than the mini ones(bout 2 1/2 times larger). It more convenient for me and still works. I’ve never seen a feeding port design so that’s ingenious and interesting and less disturbance to the nest. I do have to open my top of outworld for feeding and put Fluon on the sides.

I have a pva sponge for the water plug, so flooding is less susceptible, but yeah a slight tip is better for cotton plugs. My mistake was not noticing the testtube/outworld connection warped after some time for a Rubbermaid container outworld even though it was tight when I checked. Modeling clay works well I’d didn’t have anything handy at the time so I just plugged the gaps with cotton between the outworld and box and with a foam below. Basically plug it tight. I’ve seen some use rubber bands.
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#11 Online rptraut - Posted January 20 2024 - 12:24 AM

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Hello Mushu;

 

Glad to hear you like the feeding port, read some of my other posts and you might pick up some other useful tips.  

 

I've never had much luck with Fluon.  It didn't seem to work as well as the heavy mineral oil and baby powder I was already using.  I find it easier to contain the ants in a smaller opening like the feeding port than when I open the entire top to feed them.  I usually put heavy mineral oil around the inside of the feeding port with high ant populations, but actually, in most cases all I have to do is blow gently on any ants that are there and they usually retreat.   I often put the oil at the bottom of the wall, so the ants don't walk up the walls at all.  

 

I used to wrap cotton on the vinyl tubing and slide the test tube on, before I switched to using modeling clay.   Modeling clay is actually quite stiff at room temperature, at least mine is.  Before I start molding it, I warm it in my hands and soften it up.  After it's molded, it stiffens as it cools and makes a fairly solid connection.  If the size difference between the outside of the vinyl tubing and the inside of the test tube isn't too great, the test tube can hang down and be supported by the tubing inside.  All the modeling clay does is fill the space and make a solid connection.   

RPT


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#12 Offline Mushu - Posted January 20 2024 - 2:25 AM

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Yeah, I thought about making the vent hole up top bigger to where I can access a certain portion of the outworld but my ants threw stuff randomly on each sides towards the end of the outworld so I would've had to open the top to reach those trash. I don't rely on the fluon but it helps so they can't just climb out everywhere. 

 

On the subject of this thread. Most definitely would recommend a outworld for a test tube with some workers that are ready to forage. The mini outworld by PDuncan67 is very clean design but you can easily make one with rubbermaid containers or even these acrylic display boxes which are good  quality if you like a nicer slightly larger outworld container. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...hlbWF0aWM&th=1)


Edited by Mushu, January 20 2024 - 2:26 AM.

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#13 Online rptraut - Posted January 21 2024 - 3:10 AM

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Hello Mushu;

That case looks like it could easily be modified if it can be drilled and cut. I’ve put test tubes with founding colonies in even smaller cubes. I call it the “Tubes in Cubes” system!
RPT
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#14 Offline dboeren - Posted January 21 2024 - 8:24 AM

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@PDuncan67 - Where did you get those mini-outworlds from?



#15 Offline PDuncan67 - Posted January 21 2024 - 10:08 AM

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@PDuncan67 - Where did you get those mini-outworlds from?

Those came from Amazon
https://www.amazon.c...product_details

 

but I have also seen them on AliExpress cheaper - they will just take longer to get there.


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Location: West Tennessee, USA
Colonies: Lasius neoniger, Messor barbarus, Camponotus floridanus





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