13 replies to this topic

[ColAnt735]

Recently I've been deliberating whether or not I should try my hand at raising a massive Solenopsis molesta colony. I believe that I have the materials and commitment to do this, but I've never kept a truly huge ant colony and it seems pretty difficult to maintain. Is there anything I should know before potentially getting into this? 

[ReignofRage]

There won't be too much of a challenge raising S. molesta to their maximum size considering their maximum colony size isn't massive. I could maybe see the colony wearing down barriers quicker than a smaller colony, but that is about it.

[futurebird]

Large colonies are significantly more work than smaller colonies. Small colonies stay in test tubes and you can almost forget about them, in fact bothering them too much is bad. My colonies are all huge now and even though it's winter I still need to refill their extra large water feeders every week and give them sugar and a bug or two now and then. 

 

I need to plan for this summer or I'm going to get overwhelmed since they want to eat every day. They need bigger nests, they need more outworlds, they want to take over the world as far as I can tell. 

 

Really what's driving me nuts are ants on the lids of the containers making changing their water and food difficult. Yes I use fluon, but it wears off after a week or two. 

[ReignofRage]

Really what's driving me nuts are ants on the lids of the containers making changing their water and food difficult. Yes I use fluon, but it wears off after a week or two. 

 

If PTFE is breaking down that fast, it means it's exposed to absurdly high humidity and moisture, which may be the case due to the extra large water feeders. PTFE as a barrier is best used for open-top containers or for lipped lids that are open in the middle. Talcum powder may work better if you want to use lids. Unfortunately PTFE isn't the be-all end-all for barriers.

Edited by ReignofRage, January 15 2024 - 2:57 AM.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

As said, fluon breaking down fast is likely due to high humidity in the outworld. Open top outworlds retain their fluon barriers for a  long time for me.

While my ants are not yet huge, and bad climbers. I'd say a big aid in keeping a larger colony will be a larger open air outworld space for them. When all the outworlds are lidded, from the Ant's POV it may all be nest. In which case you'll get much higher concentrations of ants hanging out to deal with when you care for them. While an open air outworld will kind of discourage them from just loitering there as if it were nest space.

 

The tighter a space they are packed into the more of them you have to directly deal wiht when you go to preform care.

 

As well if you can hook up 2-3 outworlds, then you can block one off when you need to clean it up. Plug up an outworld, pooter the ants in it to a different one, and you can maintenance it easier.

 

I intended to let my colony grow [censored] large as i can, but this will eventually run into space constraints here, so culling will become a thing at some point for me to keep them at a decent colony size/space ratio.

[ANTdrew]

One difficulty you’ll run into with a massive colony of tiny ants is that at some point you will no longer be able to clean their outworld since everything will have multiple ants on, under, and inside of it. This is the greatest downside of successfully keeping an ant colony, in my opinion.

[BleepingBleepers]

Really what's driving me nuts are ants on the lids of the containers making changing their water and food difficult. Yes I use fluon, but it wears off after a week or two. 

This is what I feel too, at least with my ants which are on the larger side of 7-18 mm, the room and food requirements and I'm adding SMELL to the issue of a larger colony.

 

That being said:

I don't have any experience with thief ants (solenopsis molesta) but from what I read, what would make them easier to deal with would definitely be their size; they're tiny 0.8 mm! They have smaller colonies of a thousand, or several thousand with multiple Queens.

 

 

 

I also have same thoughts on FLUON. I think:

 

1. Fluon works better on some ants than others. (Edit: have you tried other barrier types? Might just work a lot better for you than fluon for whatever ants you're using them for)

2. Could be old fluon we're using, one that isn't as effective.

3. Maybe it came premixed at different ratio of dilution that might not be as affective when dealing with certain humidity levels. I've even heard of folks diluting their fluon to around 70 / 30 water:fluon or so.

4. Humidity as everyone's saying but with me, I have similar results even in my separate outworld that is bone dry and room humidity of 30-40%. So I think it's the mentioned above for me (maybe you too?)

 

Personally, I've seen my ants passing the fluon barrier enough time to now use fluon as a deterrent and not so much an actual barrier.

I also found out that hungry ants go for the barrier a lot more. I saw my hungry carpenter ants going crazy, rushing that 'barrier' which gave way after only a few days.

I would definitely trust a mesh lid over fluon any days, ESPECIALLY should these ants be the kind that can sting.

Edited by BleepingBleepers, January 15 2024 - 12:14 PM.

[AsdinAnts]

solenopsis molesta can sting, but their size and sting are wayyyy to small to pierce human skin.

[ColAnt735]

I think I might try to make my current Lasius cf. neoniger colony huge as well. 

[rptraut]

Hello ColAnt735;

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with Solenopsis molesta, but I can tell you what I've learned from the large colonies I do have. 

 

As some of my colonies get larger, they seem to have a change in attitude from shy, retiring workers afraid to come into the daylight, to frantic hordes determined to escape no matter what the cost.   Because of this I've had to institute a "no escape - no return" policy with my ants.  My formicaria must be escape proof and no wayward ant is ever returned, (believe me, my wife insists on these conditions).  I have only developed foolproof escape barriers for Camponotus and Tapinoma ants (using mineral oil and talcum powder), so they're the only two types I keep in open top containers.  All the rest of my colonies are kept in containers that have tight fitting lids and stainless-steel screens over holes for ventilation.  This becomes important as the larger a colony becomes, the more persistent and determined they become.  Last year I had two similar sized Tetramorium colonies.  In each setup I had used a cork to plug an access tube that wasn't being used.  After two years both colonies chewed through their cork within a day of each other.  There can be very large numbers of very determined ants.  With larger colonies, escape must be as impossible as you can make it.  They will put debris on Vaseline until they've made a bridge they can walk over; they'll try to get over talcum powder barriers relentlessly until they've worn it away and can finally climb out.  They'll skate over Fluon and they'll chew on screens and glue or anything else that might afford the chance for escape.  This means that as colonies grow larger, reapplication of barriers and regular inspections become more important to stop escapes before they happen. 

 

Outworlds can be added or improved to provide "entertainment" value and reduce ant boredom.    I feel the larger a colony gets, the more they appreciate a naturalistic setup in their outworld.  At least an outworld that takes advantage of the three-dimensional space available, instead of just a sandy floor with a couple of rocks.  I try to outfit one outworld with large rocks, hollow branches, some soil, plastic plants and flowers, a wet hole or oasis, moss - anything for them to dig and play in - sort of a playground outworld.  If it's too busy to feed there, I attach a smaller outworld where I do the feeding and watering of the colony.  It has a lid which I remove for feeding and there's a barrier to prevent escapes during feeding, or I use a feeding port. 

 

Larger colonies need to be fed more frequently.  I try to feed my large colonies six days a week with a fasting day on the seventh.  This lets them clean up any stored food in the nest, although I usually try to feed them enough to only last one day.  The larger a colony gets the more food they will require and the more trash they'll produce.  To reduce this problem, I feed larger colonies mostly meat products that are a lot easier to cut up and feed than insects and meats produce little trash.  Larger colonies don't seem to be quite as picky about food as smaller ones.  One of the joys of a large colony is watching them swarm a food item, dismantle it and transport it back to the colony.  A small piece of chicken replaces many flies and crickets, so you don't have to keep or buy large numbers of feeder insects, avoiding those odor issues.  Less trash means fewer odors too.

 

As a colony gets larger its' requirement for water and sugar/water also increases, making filling feeders more frequent and difficult.  I usually switch my larger colonies to test tubes with cotton plugs for both sugar/water and water.  I either place them in an outworld or attach them to tubing where they are easily replaced when empty.  

 

Every environment has limitations to its' carrying capacity and population control is often the only alternative to maintain a balance (I fear the human race will discover this too late).  Culling or selective removal of ants mimics the effect of predators and other natural controls that keep an ant population in check.  To reduce the negative impact on the colony I try to remove an equal number of older foraging workers before a new batch of workers ecloses.  I find that a small number of ants removed regularly is easier for a colony to maintain than removal of a large number of ants all at once.    

 

Hello Futurebird; 

 

Try using "heavy mineral oil" as a barrier in your outworlds.  It's available at your pharmacy.  I use it as a barrier for all my ants and so far, only Lasius americanus and Temnothorax ants have been able to easily cross it.  Most of my ants stop dead when they reach it.  I use a cotton swab to apply it in a narrow strip around the area I don't want the ants to cross.  I put it around screens and feeding ports to keep ants out, but here's a little tip.  Don't put it at the top of the walls you don't want them to climb.  Put it all around the bottom of the walls.  I find that a 1/4-to-1/2-inch (1-2 cm) strip is all it takes.  I started doing this because mineral oil is thin (even the heavy oil) and it will run if I put it at the top.  Putting it at the bottom eliminates that problem with the added bonus that any adventurous ant that does cross it will have nicely oiled "feet" and will find it impossible to climb up the smooth acrylic wall.  Often, they just stop trying.   And if they're real escape artists you can add a second barrier at the top.  Talcum powder sticks really well to oily feet and they fall off every time.  

 

RPT

[ColAnt735]

Hello ColAnt735;

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with Solenopsis molesta, but I can tell you what I've learned from the large colonies I do have. 

 

As some of my colonies get larger, they seem to have a change in attitude from shy, retiring workers afraid to come into the daylight, to frantic hordes determined to escape no matter what the cost.   Because of this I've had to institute a "no escape - no return" policy with my ants.  My formicaria must be escape proof and no wayward ant is ever returned, (believe me, my wife insists on these conditions).  I have only developed foolproof escape barriers for Camponotus and Tapinoma ants (using mineral oil and talcum powder), so they're the only two types I keep in open top containers.  All the rest of my colonies are kept in containers that have tight fitting lids and stainless-steel screens over holes for ventilation.  This becomes important as the larger a colony becomes, the more persistent and determined they become.  Last year I had two similar sized Tetramorium colonies.  In each setup I had used a cork to plug an access tube that wasn't being used.  After two years both colonies chewed through their cork within a day of each other.  There can be very large numbers of very determined ants.  With larger colonies, escape must be as impossible as you can make it.  They will put debris on Vaseline until they've made a bridge they can walk over; they'll try to get over talcum powder barriers relentlessly until they've worn it away and can finally climb out.  They'll skate over Fluon and they'll chew on screens and glue or anything else that might afford the chance for escape.  This means that as colonies grow larger, reapplication of barriers and regular inspections become more important to stop escapes before they happen. 

 

Outworlds can be added or improved to provide "entertainment" value and reduce ant boredom.    I feel the larger a colony gets, the more they appreciate a naturalistic setup in their outworld.  At least an outworld that takes advantage of the three-dimensional space available, instead of just a sandy floor with a couple of rocks.  I try to outfit one outworld with large rocks, hollow branches, some soil, plastic plants and flowers, a wet hole or oasis, moss - anything for them to dig and play in - sort of a playground outworld.  If it's too busy to feed there, I attach a smaller outworld where I do the feeding and watering of the colony.  It has a lid which I remove for feeding and there's a barrier to prevent escapes during feeding, or I use a feeding port. 

 

Larger colonies need to be fed more frequently.  I try to feed my large colonies six days a week with a fasting day on the seventh.  This lets them clean up any stored food in the nest, although I usually try to feed them enough to only last one day.  The larger a colony gets the more food they will require and the more trash they'll produce.  To reduce this problem, I feed larger colonies mostly meat products that are a lot easier to cut up and feed than insects and meats produce little trash.  Larger colonies don't seem to be quite as picky about food as smaller ones.  One of the joys of a large colony is watching them swarm a food item, dismantle it and transport it back to the colony.  A small piece of chicken replaces many flies and crickets, so you don't have to keep or buy large numbers of feeder insects, avoiding those odor issues.  Less trash means fewer odors too.

 

As a colony gets larger its' requirement for water and sugar/water also increases, making filling feeders more frequent and difficult.  I usually switch my larger colonies to test tubes with cotton plugs for both sugar/water and water.  I either place them in an outworld or attach them to tubing where they are easily replaced when empty.  

 

Every environment has limitations to its' carrying capacity and population control is often the only alternative to maintain a balance (I fear the human race will discover this too late).  Culling or selective removal of ants mimics the effect of predators and other natural controls that keep an ant population in check.  To reduce the negative impact on the colony I try to remove an equal number of older foraging workers before a new batch of workers ecloses.  I find that a small number of ants removed regularly is easier for a colony to maintain than removal of a large number of ants all at once.    

 

Thank you for such a detailed answer! One question though, do you think that it's possible make the outworld in a large display case? If I seal the bottom and drill holes of course.

Edited by ColAnt735, January 16 2024 - 1:49 PM.

[ANTdrew]

Large display cases make the best outworlds. They also happen to be 50% off at Hobby Lobby this week. Why would you seal the bottom??

[ColAnt735]

Large display cases make the best outworlds. They also happen to be 50% off at Hobby Lobby this week. Why would you seal the bottom?

Just searched up large display case, I forgot what they looked like.

[rptraut]

Hello ColAnt735;

Nice to hear from a fellow Canadian ant keeper.
I’m not familiar with the cases from Hobby Lobby and I’m not even sure they have international shipping. All I’ll say is, reread my post. If you can make it escape proof and can access it for cleaning etc, with no escapes, then it should be good. From what I know, Solenopsis molesta is very small. I’ve had small ants escape from under what I thought was a tight fitting lid, so be vigilant. I know my answers are detailed, I put a lot of thought into them. Thanks for taking the time to read them. It takes me awhile to write these answers but it’s worth it if it helps you. Good luck
RPT