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New Keep (P. RUGOSUS)

p. rugosus

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#1 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 6 2024 - 10:57 AM

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Hello! 

I am new to ant keeping. I found someone in the GAN project and ordered what they said are Dark Harvester Ants. When they came there were from Ant Vault and they have Dark Harvester Ant as P. Rugosus. I have been trying to look up care for them or any info I can get and its all a big conflicting. Right now I have the queen and about 5+ workers in a test tub. I am keeping them dark and warm for now until I get this sorted out. 

I want to keep them in a natual terrarium so here are my questions. 

5 gallon tank big enough? When I talk to them they said that would be perfect. 

How would he heat it? They suggest a heat mat but that would not keep several inchest of earth warm and the air in the tank. Heat lamp with day and night bulbs? 

What kind of substrait would be best for them to tunnel into? 

What plants would you suggest for them? 


5 gallons tank of flat sand with a mound in it sounds kind of boring but from what little I could find that almost seems best. What are my option? If you have succesfully kept them what would you suggest I do? 

 

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#2 Offline UtahAnts - Posted January 6 2024 - 2:28 PM

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Looks like you got yourself a nice Novomessor colony, not Pogonomyrmex rugosus. I'm not sure how ant vault misidentified that. Care should be similar regardless. A 5 gallon tank would work well with a heat lamp. Try to use a mix of natural sand and clay, or something else that holds together well. As the colony grows they may kill any plants by burrowing under the root systems.


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#3 Online ANTdrew - Posted January 6 2024 - 2:48 PM

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Add interest with cool looking stones and driftwood. Plants will be buried and destroyed sooner rather than later.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#4 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 6 2024 - 2:59 PM

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This is all way more frustrating than fun!

Ant Vault has Long Legged Harvester Ants as Novomessor Cockerelli. The guy I talked to did say he has Long Legged Harvester Ants but he wanted almost twice as much for them so I passed. 
 

I sent him and email to the address he gave me asking for the species and genus but that was a day ago and nothing yet. I also sent a message on Ant Vault live chat but I guess they do not work on the weekend because that was hours ago with no reply. 

I keep my house at 70 so will that be good for night time or should I have a night time heat lamp too? 

Will they be able to climb the corners with a olive oil barrier? Would talcum powder work better?  

I guess I can make something somewhat interesting out of rocks and driftwood. Not really what I was wanting though. Would not have picked a desert species if I had known. Cockerelli


Edited by Beginners_Burrow, January 6 2024 - 3:15 PM.

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#5 Offline ReignofRage - Posted January 6 2024 - 9:57 PM

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N. cockerelli are heatphilic - with 70℉ being fairly cold for them, but a heat lamp should be plenty to heat a dirt box. I would use talcum powder as a barrier and use tape to cover the silicone in the corners, so the barrier will stick. A five gallon tank will last the colony a decent while, but they will out grow it if you allow it. Additionally, Most ants will trash a beautifully planted dirt box no matter what kind of habitat they came from and do better being warmer than your room temperature, so a desert species doesn't make much of a difference.


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#6 Offline ChenZ - Posted January 6 2024 - 10:25 PM

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P. rugosus is also a desert species, you'll need a heat source for which ever species you've got here... P. rugosus and N. cockerelli share pretty similar environmental requirements, except that N. cockerelli feeds on insects and have less (if any) interest in seeds.

 

N. cockerelli is a fantastic species to keep, they eat a lot and breed like wild fire. P. rugosus founding colony grows quite slowly, the good thing about them is you can leave them alone for a very long time as long as seeds and water are available.


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#7 Online ANTdrew - Posted January 7 2024 - 3:44 AM

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Olive oil is widely considered the least effective kind of barrier. You will also need to make a plastic rim to fit over the top of your aquarium since ants can easily grip into silicone regardless of what barrier you put on it. Apply talcum powder or fluon on the bottom side of the rim. Glue the rim on with silicone.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#8 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 7 2024 - 5:22 AM

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P. rugosus is also a desert species, you'll need a heat source for which ever species you've got here... P. rugosus and N. cockerelli share pretty similar environmental requirements, except that N. cockerelli feeds on insects and have less (if any) interest in seeds.

 

N. cockerelli is a fantastic species to keep, they eat a lot and breed like wild fire. P. rugosus founding colony grows quite slowly, the good thing about them is you can leave them alone for a very long time as long as seeds and water are available.

 

 

The guy I talked to on the phone didn't tell me that either were a desert species. I told him what I wanted to do but maybe he didn't understand or maybe he only had desert species and wanted the sale. I do think I got the better or the two for what I want though so that was good. I did like the seed feeding a lot though because they are easier to keep then feeders. 


Edited by Beginners_Burrow, January 7 2024 - 7:08 AM.


#9 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 7 2024 - 5:27 AM

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N. cockerelli are heatphilic - with 70℉ being fairly cold for them, but a heat lamp should be plenty to heat a dirt box. I would use talcum powder as a barrier and use tape to cover the silicone in the corners, so the barrier will stick. A five gallon tank will last the colony a decent while, but they will out grow it if you allow it. Additionally, Most ants will trash a beautifully planted dirt box no matter what kind of habitat they came from and do better being warmer than your room temperature, so a desert species doesn't make much of a difference.


Like probably a lot of people who are getting into this hobby it's because I watched Ants Canada. I don't like the tubes and plastic set ups. But seeing you can do a natural set like he has that is what made me interested. His setups don't get trashed so I never thought about it being an issue.

So you are saying you can't really have a setup like he does?

#10 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 7 2024 - 8:19 AM

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Would this be a good digging medium? Or should I just use play sand? 

sorry I have so many questions and its really hard to find anything on how to set up a desert formicarium.  



#11 Offline Full_Frontal_Yeti - Posted January 7 2024 - 9:06 AM

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My own take would be to suggest a not dirt setup. I read plenty of people having better luck founding with many species in dirt, but it looks like you got a more going colony there already. And dirt is more work/more variables to deal in as far as i my reading/homework has shown. No personal XP wiht dirt though.

I'm lazy so all my setup effort is on having the lowest amount of ongoing maintenance and/or difficulties over time. With a willingness to do a bit more effort up front/spend more money up front, to have less effort over time.
I too like more natural looking setups and am that into the plastic/acrylic setups personally.

I do know that for dirt setups you want a not too loose a dirt/sand, or their tunnels will easily collapse on them. Some kind of clay/dirt/sand mix that's not too dense/firm, but not too loose either. Again, challenges that not dirt setups don't face, which is why i didn't do dirt. I'm lazy.

I would say that if you had separated nest/outworld space you could do a 1/4"-1/8" loose dry sand as the base of the outworld for a natural look there.
Though part of the challenge of real dirt available is the ants can build with it. They could potentially cover up viewing glass into their nest if they wanted it darker.

 

On heat:

I'd recommend a 15 watt heat cable over a matt. You can more easily control exactly where you want to apply heat. Part of the challenge is applying heat and giving them high humidity in their nest, while not getting condensation covering up the view into their nest.
Keeping the heat source as far from the humidity source as possible is part of controlling the condensation. In test tubes it's likely best to not apply heat directly to it as it s so small and one solid material the heat will evaporate the water too fast and fill the tube with condensation.

If you have the tube as their nest in a tank, then keeping the internal ambient of the tank up should be plenty with no need to directly apply heat to their nest. And an overhead incandescent is likely plenty for that. Though consider what temps may do overnight if it is off. My house has the thermal properties of a tent, in winter i use an overhead ceramic heat element at night so their space don't get too cold.

 

 

When you move them out of their tube:
When i had my colony in a THA mini hearth, i attached the heat cable to the opposite side as the watertower (what hydrates the inside of the nest, in the tube this is the cotton-ball with water behind it) to not heat it too much. But importantly also let the heat cable have a little direct contact with the glass too. Condensation happens when there is a great enough temperature difference between the inside nest air temp and the temp of the glass. Applying a little heat directly to the glass keeps it warm enough to prevent it, and will dry out any glass that has condensation on it already.
 

 

Here's what my setup looks like using all THA outworlds. Though my nests are behind the outworlds so you can't seem them well in the image.
There is no loose dirt in anything, it's all a plasterish pour material of some kind, with natural rocks, sticks, and few fake plants as decoration.

https://www.formicul...-1698166076.jpg

And my journal here in case you find any useful info in it.

https://www.formicul...dentalis/page-7
 

 

Lastly this device has really let me be lazy and feel confident the ant's environment is kept consistent.
6_360x.png?v=1665475549

https://www.digiten....om-fermentation

 

two temp probes control two outlets for heat that also have a timer function. And one timer only outlet for day/night light.
Early on I used one for nest temps and one for ambient. But now i have more nest so both outlets run a heat cable for different nest sections now.
Most ant nests will have some ports on them for expanding or ventilation/water. I use one for a temp probe with a rubber band around the end so it fits into the port tightly.

 

Good luck.


Edited by Full_Frontal_Yeti, January 7 2024 - 9:09 AM.


#12 Offline ReignofRage - Posted January 7 2024 - 4:25 PM

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So you are saying you can't really have a setup like he does?

 

You can for select species, however the majority of the species available to you will be destructive.



#13 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 7 2024 - 6:12 PM

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I spent 2 days researching everything I could and it was unbelievably little to find out there that was helpful. In the end here is what I did. 

Started with a drainage layer  of lava rocks and charcoal. Covered with a screen and added a PVC pipe to allow evaporation and also to add water. Found a really good post on this forum about desert and how the animals dig to find more moist soil. So while the top is bone dry the low levels should be more moist. 

Next layer I mixed potting soil(no chemicals) and coco fiber to make a layer that will not go through the screen and fill the drainage layer. I will also help hold some moisture. 

Then I mixed 3 parts desert sand with 1 part potting soil for what I hope will be a more stable digging medium than just sand. Added a little at a time to keep packing it in until I had about 2-3 inches. 

I added a kind of pond with rocks in it so that if they fall in the water they can get back out easy. 

Around the stop I will put packing tape and then petroleum jelly. I will also put it around the top of the PVC pipe. 

Added a rock, driftwood and a cactus just so it did not look boring. 

How did I do? 

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#14 Online ANTdrew - Posted January 8 2024 - 2:59 AM

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Petroleum jelly will probably not stop them long term. Ants can stick trash to it and form a bridge out. Some clay soil should be mixed into the sand to prevent tunnel collapses. Depending on where you live, the soil in your yard is probably full of clay. I still *highly* recommend making a rim for the top of the aquarium out of some flexible plastic, like the stuff that comes with poster frames. It is soft enough to cut with scissors. Apply talcum powder or fluon to the bottom of the rim.
Oh, and get a rubber stopper for your PVC tube, or the ants will start living down in your hydration layer.

Edited by ANTdrew, January 8 2024 - 3:02 AM.

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#15 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 8 2024 - 3:19 AM

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Petroleum jelly will probably not stop them long term. Ants can stick trash to it and form a bridge out. Some clay soil should be mixed into the sand to prevent tunnel collapses. Depending on where you live, the soil in your yard is probably full of clay. I still *highly* recommend making a rim for the top of the aquarium out of some flexible plastic, like the stuff that comes with poster frames. It is soft enough to cut with scissors. Apply talcum powder or fluon to the bottom of the rim.
Oh, and get a rubber stopper for your PVC tube, or the ants will start living down in your hydration layer.

I put packing tape all the way around so I can switch it over easy. 

The potting soil has a high amount of clay that is why I used it. Unless I make it mostly dirt though I do not see how a small amount of clay is going to change much. 3 to 1 sand to potting soil didn't do much, Should I change that more? I want to try and keep is close to natural ants its already not. suggestions? 

Pretty sure they can dig down there anyway. I did put a barrier around the top but I can look into a stopper. 

I saw you suggest that with the plastic from the frame to someone else after I made my setup. I love the idea but I would not be able to use the PVC pipe. I am trying to work out how to make both work. 



#16 Online ANTdrew - Posted January 8 2024 - 12:07 PM

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You only need a rim that’s about 1-2” wide. Cut a big circle out of the middle, so you have full access to the pvc and everything else in the tank.
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#17 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 8 2024 - 12:35 PM

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I would have to get a funnel to get over to the corner to add water when needed. Shouldn't be a big deal.

So I found out the sand I used is actually ground walnut.


So what is best? Excavator clay and play sand? Do I mix water or just use it from the bag? I don't know any places around here I can get clay from them ground.

Edit: so I started looking into what they live in the wild and it seems rocky soil more then rocky sand. So just potting soil left to dry out should work best? Says they like to stack pebbles so maybe mix pebbles into the soil. Opinions?

Edited by Beginners_Burrow, January 8 2024 - 1:02 PM.


#18 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 10 2024 - 6:36 PM

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So I am finally happy with the digging medium. I have everything set up and I let the dirts dry out with a heat lamp on it for 2 days. So tonight I let them out of the test tube. The guy I got them from said no longer than a week in the tube. Idk if that is true but I didn't want to take a chance.

I added a pic so if anyone can tell me for sure that these are Novomessor Cockerelli and not Pogonomyrmex rugosus like he is saying they are. Would like to know what I have.

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#19 Offline ReignofRage - Posted January 10 2024 - 7:06 PM

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The colony would have been fine in the test tube for another month or so, most likely. They are very blatantly N. cockerelli in every image.



#20 Offline Beginners_Burrow - Posted January 10 2024 - 7:47 PM

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The colony would have been fine in the test tube for another month or so, most likely. They are very blatantly N. cockerelli in every image.


Well being new I was just going by what he said. I thought they would have been fine.
Well then I got lucky because I only paid $130 with shipping for the queen and 6 workers. From what I have seen N. cockerelli got for twice that for the same setup. They also seem the more interesting of the 2.




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