19 replies to this topic

[terry]

Hello everybody I'm terry, an ants lover from china, My English is a little weak, please don't mind. My favorite ant is Messor cephalotes. April 23，2015 ,I got the queen of Messor cephalotes afer I bought it 4 days befor from a china online store called taobao .It's big red and so beautyful, but the eggs  can't hatch until now,who  knows why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan21700]

Try moving her in a different setup or add some substrate to a test tube and put her there.

Beautiful queen BTW!

Edited by Jonathan21700, September 18 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[dermy]

You got the queen 4 days ago?

Beautiful queen BTW!

No he got it about 4+ months ago:

 

 

April 23，2015 ,I got the queen of Messor cephalotes afer I bought it 4 days befor from a china online store called taobao

 

I'm not really sure why they haven't hatched, what temprature are you keeping them at?

[terry]

Now i still have two alive,one is at 25 degrees ,another is at 30 degrees

[terry]

Is anybody gonna join me down here?

[LC3]

25-30 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit? If it's Fahrenheit its probably too low as most people keep ants around 70 or so Fahrenheit. If it's Celsius it's a bit high for the species here but down where you live it might be just perfect.   

[drtrmiller]

If the eggs are not hatching at 25-30 C within 4 months, then they are being eaten or the queen is infertile.

 

Only buy queens or colonies that have workers, as it is impossible to know whether a queen is fertilized if she has not yet reared brood or workers.

[dspdrew]

I heard that a lot of these ant stores sell infertile alates as fertile queens, and of course they never end up producing any colony.

[Jonathan21700]

I heard that a lot of these ant stores sell infertile alates as fertile queens, and of course they never end up producing any colony.

How they remove the wings then?

I don't think infertile queens would remove their wings.

Edited by Jonathan21700, September 22 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[123LordOfAnts123]

I heard that a lot of these ant stores sell infertile alates as fertile queens, and of course they never end up producing any colony.

How they remove the wings then?
I don't think infertile queens would remove their wings.

You could pull them off yourself, they come off with little resistance. I wouldn't be surprised if online stores are doing just that.

Edited by 123Lord Of Ants123, September 22 2015 - 3:09 PM.

[Works4TheGood]

A queen may remove her wings even if she's infertile. Here's a supporting quote from the AntsCanada website: http://antscanada.co...your-ant-colony

"... if a queen has broken off her wings it also doesn’t guarantee that your queen has mated. We have had queens with wings give birth to workers (but the wings were removed eventually), and had queens that did break off their wings never lay eggs, so wing breakage isn’t a good indicator of previous mating"

[drtrmiller]

While the observations may be correct, I would refrain from using an uncited quotation from a vendor website as a reference—this is how misinformation is perpetuated.

[kellakk]

While the observations may be correct, I would refrain from using an uncited quotation from a vendor website as a reference—this is how misinformation is perpetuated.

 

I agree with you in principle, as many people will quote unreliable sources.  In this case, though, AntsCanada is a reputable source with as much claim to knowledge as most others replying to this thread (we're mostly speaking from experience or opinions based on experience).  

 

Here's an interesting paper on how dealation works in S. invicta. (Link here) There's a paywall, unfortunately.

Apparently, dealation is prevented in the nest by inhibitory pheromones prevalent there, but if they're outside the nest all bets are off.  Flight and copulation help reinforce the impulse to tear wings off, but the process is not absolute as was stated above. 

[drtrmiller]

When you use someone's personal website or observations as a reference, you are asserting that the reference is a credible source, and the facts are indisputable.  If the facts happen to be wrong, people searching Google will stumble upon the thread, read the wrong facts, and be armed with incomplete-, or worse, misinformation.  Then, they will use the "facts" elsewhere, and spread the misinformation.

 

This is exactly how people got the idea that transporting all ants within the US was illegal, even though few, if any, could cite the laws that made it so.  Now, everyone and their mother has read from some website or another that shipping or transporting any queen ant is illegal 100% of the time, no exceptions, and so everyone is misinformed.  Citing personal websites whose statements are based on original observations or research is dangerous!

 

No vendor website, forum comment, or other web source, regardless as to the reputation or experience of the author, should be referenced as a reliable source unless the statements are clearly supported by peer-reviewed cited literature.

 

Even Wikipedia has high standards with regard to citations. I thought this was just common sense.

Edited by drtrmiller, September 22 2015 - 9:43 PM.

[kellakk]

I made an edit above with some relevant information.

 

drtrmiller, I agree with you in intent, but that sort of rule is just too over-the-top. What you're saying is that, even though some people have years and years of experience with myrmecology or formiculture ( ) we should not be allowed to cite their input.  Not all knowledge is publishable in the scientific literature.

[terry]

now  I am certain that the queen was not mate, but its strange that  they can have so much eggs.

what a pity! this sort of ant is so rare that I can just get it from this only channel of online ants store , so I bought a total of six but none of them give me a colony .

 

if possible i just wish i can get a real queen and feed it to a big  colony.

Edited by terry, September 23 2015 - 9:35 AM.

[Crystals]

Have you tried feeding the queen some sugar water?  Just a tiny drop on a piece of tin foil for easy clean up.  Some queens do tend to take forever to get the hang of rearing brood.

 

All eggs can hatch, infertile ones befome male alates.  Fertile ones provide workers (or queens).

 

I have had queens without wings who were infertile (they either never raised their brood, or got male alates).

I have also had queens with wings who ended up with workers (and were fertile).

You just never know until you either get a worker or a male alate.

 

Perhaps put 10 or so grains of sand in, just in case it helps.

 

I have had some queens take over 9 months to get their first worker.

 

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.

[Jonathan21700]

I've had Lasius queens without wings laying lots of eggs but none of them turned into larvae. I thought they were infertile and moved them out of the test tubes into dirt setups.

After some time they had workers so this does not mean they are infertile. I think they don't like the setups in which they have being placed and eat their eggs and then lay new ones.

Also queens that are infertile behave much different than fertile ones (my experience). They don't seem to settle down, run around or pull the cotton and try to fly away. Fertile ones try to remove their wings, search for a nesting place and settle down.

Sorry for my bad English

[terry]

one of my friends gave the eggs of Messor cephalotes to a colony of Messor barburus without queen，it's surprise that the eggs  became larva, i hope it will end up with workers 

Edited by terry, September 24 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[Gregory2455]

 

I heard that a lot of these ant stores sell infertile alates as fertile queens, and of course they never end up producing any colony.

How they remove the wings then?

I don't think infertile queens would remove their wings.

 

It is fairly easy to remove alates wings with tweezers. I have never done it on purpose, but it became apparent after it happened on accident a couple times when handling winged queens.