7 replies to this topic

[prettycode]

The last month or so that a messor barbarus colony (35+ workers) has been living in its formicarium, the queen has never come out of the nest--at least, not that I've seen.

 

Tonight though, the whole colony went ape crazy. I found a 3/4" centipede under a rock outside, froze it, cut open its belly, and tossed it in their outworld. All the ants came swarming out of the nest--including the queen.

 

Most of the colony attacked the dead centipede, while the queen ran around the formicarium perimeter frantically.

 

I've put other dead/frozen insects in the outworld area before, insects of equal or greater size (moth, baby grasshopper, enormous June bug) and the ants never freaked out. Queen never left nest.

 

This time, with the centipede specifically, they all went nuts. I would have never put it in the outworld if I had known it would cause this much stress. 

 

Has anyone else had a bad experience with particular insects--as if there are insects that predate ants in the wild, and the ants recognize them?

 

I'd really like to avoid this from happening in the future. How will I know if an insect will cause this commotion again? How do I know when an insect is "safe" food vs. "scary" food? Ant tips?

[Crystals]

I have found that my local ants also react strongly to larger centipedes.  I suspect they can smell it, and the queen figures a moving target is harder to catch.  Or she may have been following the crowd after the alarm pheromones were released.

 

I find colonies under 100 can have some bizarre reactions to anything new added to their foraging area.

[JakobS]

Since centipedes are predators, and most likely predators of ants, their reaction will be far different than what you will find with herbivores (moth's, grasshoppers, june bugs). They will react to a live or dead predator aggressively until they know that it is no longer a threat to the colony. It's not simply about the size, but about the specific relationship that the insect/arthropod has to the ants. The queen was trying to escape the potential threat the centipede had to the colony. This reaction would especially be enhanced if the centipede is very close to the colony. Since many outworlds are setup to be close to the colony with captive ants, this will be seen a lot.  

 

The key to know what the relationship a feeder insect/arthropod has to an ant is to identify it to the best degree you can. A general insect identification guide can help, as well as websites such as bugguide.net.  Once you have identified what it is, searching for terms such as "Do centipedes eat ants?" or "Centipede diets"  can pull up both general and scientific information that can help you make a decision. 

Edited by JakobS, August 27 2015 - 8:06 AM.

[William. T]

The last month or so that a messor barbarus colony (35+ workers) has been living in its formicarium, the queen has never come out of the nest--at least, not that I've seen.

 

Tonight though, the whole colony went ape crazy. I found a 3/4" centipede under a rock outside, froze it, cut open its belly, and tossed it in their outworld. All the ants came swarming out of the nest--including the queen.

 

Most of the colony attacked the dead centipede, while the queen ran around the formicarium perimeter frantically.

 

I've put other dead/frozen insects in the outworld area before, insects of equal or greater size (moth, baby grasshopper, enormous June bug) and the ants never freaked out. Queen never left nest.

 

This time, with the centipede specifically, they all went nuts. I would have never put it in the outworld if I had known it would cause this much stress. 

 

Has anyone else had a bad experience with particular insects--as if there are insects that predate ants in the wild, and the ants recognize them?

 

I'd really like to avoid this from happening in the future. How will I know if an insect will cause this commotion again? How do I know when an insect is "safe" food vs. "scary" food? Ant tips?

Centipedes sometimes have chemical concoctions. Again small colonies are weird, and centipedes are predators. Take a white tailed deer from a North American Forest and put it in an African Reserve. A lion knows it is prey, even though it has never seen one of them. The deer knows the lion is a predator, even though it has never seen one. Ants have that sense too. I suggest feeding smaller, defenseless prey such as fruit flies, houseflies, crickets, or white lawn moths.

[Works4TheGood]

I've heard folks warn against using wild-caught insects as food because of the risk of exposing the colony to new pathogens and parasites. But at the same time, it's an excellent way of supplying the ants with a balanced diet.

I wonder if the concern over wild caught insects is actually justified. To know for sure, someone would pretty much have to set up several colonies of the same species and consistently provide one set with wild caught insects, and the other with home-raised ones, treat the colonies identically in all other respects, and then see how things turn out. But since our ants are more like pets, ant-keeping experiments tend not to be carried out this methodically.

I personally am working on building up a mealworm farm to support my colonies, which is really easy and helpful when wild insects seem to be scarce or inconvenient. I wish I would have known how easy it was back when I was a kid bringing all sorts of predators (lizards, snakes, mantids) into the home.

[NightsWebs]

hmmmm I use freeze dried insects from a jar. Grasshoppers meal worms and crickets. Desert ants don't seem to mind.

[JakobS]

I've heard folks warn against using wild-caught insects as food because of the risk of exposing the colony to new pathogens and parasites. But at the same time, it's an excellent way of supplying the ants with a balanced diet.

I wonder if the concern over wild caught insects is actually justified. To know for sure, someone would pretty much have to set up several colonies of the same species and consistently provide one set with wild caught insects, and the other with home-raised ones, treat the colonies identically in all other respects, and then see how things turn out. But since our ants are more like pets, ant-keeping experiments tend not to be carried out this methodically.

I personally am working on building up a mealworm farm to support my colonies, which is really easy and helpful when wild insects seem to be scarce or inconvenient. I wish I would have known how easy it was back when I was a kid bringing all sorts of predators (lizards, snakes, mantids) into the home.

I think wild caught insects are fine as long as they appear healthy, and don't come from an area I know has a high probability of pesticide use, even then I may freeze them for a bit, but as long as they meet those criteria I won't be too concerned. But when it comes to feeding known predators of ants to ants, I would be a little hesitant, especially at the founding stage, to avoid stressing the colony too much. As the diversity of herbivorous insects is pretty abundant in the wild, it should be relatively easy to find them. Looking closely at plants and flowers, sweeping fields and meadow with an insect sweep net, or with a fine meshed net of some sort would pick out a half to many dozens at a time. 

 

Starting colonies of feeder insects/arthropods does provide a nice safety net though, and is fun as far as seeing the life cycles of predator and prey develop and interact!

Edited by JakobS, August 28 2015 - 5:52 AM.

[William. T]

 

I've heard folks warn against using wild-caught insects as food because of the risk of exposing the colony to new pathogens and parasites. But at the same time, it's an excellent way of supplying the ants with a balanced diet.

I wonder if the concern over wild caught insects is actually justified. To know for sure, someone would pretty much have to set up several colonies of the same species and consistently provide one set with wild caught insects, and the other with home-raised ones, treat the colonies identically in all other respects, and then see how things turn out. But since our ants are more like pets, ant-keeping experiments tend not to be carried out this methodically.

I personally am working on building up a mealworm farm to support my colonies, which is really easy and helpful when wild insects seem to be scarce or inconvenient. I wish I would have known how easy it was back when I was a kid bringing all sorts of predators (lizards, snakes, mantids) into the home.

I think wild caught insects are fine as long as they appear healthy, and don't come from an area I know has a high probability of pesticide use, even then I may freeze them for a bit, but as long as they meet those criteria I won't be too concerned. But when it comes to feeding known predators of ants to ants, I would be a little hesitant, especially at the founding stage, to avoid stressing the colony too much. As the diversity of herbivorous insects is pretty abundant in the wild, it should be relatively easy to find them. Looking closely at plants and flowers, sweeping fields and meadow with an insect sweep net, or with a fine meshed net of some sort would pick out a half to many dozens at a time. 

 

Starting colonies of feeder insects/arthropods does provide a nice safety net though, and is fun as far as seeing the life cycles of predator and prey develop and interact!

 

Watch out for those "lubber grasshoppers" in the south. They are poisonous.

 

I would stick to crickets and hoppers. Since they are traditional prey with only their legs for survival, there are no problems. Who knows about that bright beetle you caught today. Also, since they are in season and soon will not, catch a lot of them and freeze them to feed later.

Edited by William. T, August 28 2015 - 11:34 AM.