237 replies to this topic

[dspdrew]

Adjusted the pH of the water to match that of the Hydrostone.

[drtrmiller]

Adjusted the pH of the water to match that of the Hydrostone.

 

Not saying I was right about this; but it's good to think I was ;~)

[Mercutia]

So say, I was to make one myself. How on earth am I going to go around adjusting the pH level of my water?? Should I be using distilled?

[dspdrew]

Well, I haven't actually measured anything yet, because I haven't found my pH measuring device, but really all you need to do is pour a layer of Hydrostone in the bottom of the water tank. That will match the pH perfectly.

[Crystals]

Adding baking soda will also raise the pH (I did this for some of my aquariums that needed a higher pH).

But adding a layer on the bottom makes more sense, and is easier.

[Gregory2455]

How does one drop a pH level?
Or raise.

[benjiwuf]

acids lower pH, and bases/caustics raise pH.

[Gregory2455]

I know that, but what are acids and bases that arthe safe for ants?

[dspdrew]

Hydrostone is one. Not sure which, but I'm guessing it's a base.

[Gregory2455]

Yeah I thing gypsum is a base.

[benjiwuf]

citric acid (vitamin c) i would imagine is safe as long as it is diluted enough and carries no other additives. as for bases, you'd be surprised what is actually added to foods sometimes (i've made food products where we would add sodium hydroxide (NaOH) straight into it). so in my limited experience, i would say it more has to do with achieving the correct concentrations. although some are just simply always toxic, just make sure it's a food grade or aquarium acid/base and it should be ok when done correctly.

[dspdrew]

Okay, so I found my pH meter, and did not see any difference in pH between the two water sources. I also tried testing this out again, and even with the Hydrostone in the bottom of the tank this time, I got erosion. I was afraid this might happen because the first tank I tested with had such a small crack for the water to go through in order to reach the sponge, that the water moved through the system at a very slow rate. Over time plenty water did move through the Hydrostone, but it did so very slowly. Now that I'm testing with one that has a much larger opening, the water is moving through at a faster pace, and has already caused some erosion.

 

It now appears to not be a pH difference that's causing this problem. It also seems completely dependent on the rate at which the water flows through the Hydrostone. Whatever is going on is beyond my knowledge of physics, so I think as long as I want a hydration system where the materials are constantly saturated, I will just have to stick to those that don't seem to erode, which still seems to be anything that's not calcium-based, unlike Ytong, Hydrostone, plaster, and cement. Unless someone with a physics education can explain exactly why this happens, and how I can stop it, if it can be stopped, this will be my only choice.

[Crystals]

Hydrostone is known to "sweat", in which tiny particles can move.  One of the reasons I originally went with grout.

Have you tried use a small slice of firebrick, or a small layer of grout between the sponge and the hydrostone?

[dspdrew]

Now that I an see it's probably not a pH problem, I'm going to test this out on ceramic materials like fire brick or a bisque tile and see what happens. As for putting something between them, that won't change anything. The water will still be moving from the grout to the Hydrostone. I've already had this problem occur between a number of different materials.

[dean_k]

I don't think you will be able to stop erosion as long as water flows through a material.

 

Perhaps, what you should do is having a portion of bottom dedicated to being a water tank and let water evaporate upwards instead of having the nest brick/ytong/hydrostone to do the job.

Edited by dean_k, January 21 2015 - 9:24 AM.

[drtrmiller]

Hydrostone doesn't simply disappear. It is either a) changing to something else (i.e. chemical reaction), or b) moving somewhere else (i.e. smaller particles).

 

When a rock is smoothed by the current of the river, the parts that "disappear" are found down the stream as sand and silt.

 

You need to determine whether this so-called "erosion" is a chemical or physical phenomena.  

 

I'm still not convinced that PH imbalance is an impossibility.  Since you determined that the PH was the same, at least as far as your tests were able to measure, you may need to try increasing the PH within a measurable range, and repeat the experiment.

 

The logical conclusion of having added hydrostone to the bottom of a reservoir container, and that change having made no measurable impact on subsequent PH measurements, simply implies that adding hydrostone to the bottom of the container had no effect on PH.  This tells you nothing as to the possible cause of the "erosion," nor does it eliminate any possibilities as to the speculated cause.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 21 2015 - 9:29 AM.

[Crystals]

If I can ask, what is your ph?

Baking soda is the easiest way to raise it (at least for fish aquariums).  Don't raise it above a ph of 9 as it may affect the ants.

[dspdrew]

I don't think you will be able to stop erosion as long as water flows through a material.

 

Perhaps, what you should do is having a portion of bottom dedicated to being a water tank and let water evaporate upwards instead of having the nest brick/ytong/hydrostone to do the job.

 

If you take a look at the pictures and read all the previous posts, you will see this is not just a typical case of water flowing through something eroding it away, like the Grand Canyon. This is water simply soaking into a very hard material, and within a matter of hours, creating a small hole straight through a quarter inch of it.

 

 

The logical conclusion of having added hydrostone to the bottom of a reservoir container, and that change having made no measurable impact on subsequent PH measurements, simply implies that adding hydrostone to the bottom of the container had no effect on PH.

 

If Hydrostone is reacting with the water because of the pH, then over time the reaction would stop as the pH of the two balance out. This is how the pH of water is changed. How can you say Hydrostone has no affect on the pH of the water while it's the Hydrostone that is reacting with it? That in and of itself is having an affect on the pH.

[drtrmiller]

 

I don't think you will be able to stop erosion as long as water flows through a material.

 

Perhaps, what you should do is having a portion of bottom dedicated to being a water tank and let water evaporate upwards instead of having the nest brick/ytong/hydrostone to do the job.

If you take a look at the pictures and read all the previous posts, you will see this is not just a typical case of water flowing through something eroding it away, like the Grand Canyon. This is water simply soaking into a very hard material, and within a matter of hours, creating a small hole straight through a quarter inch of it.

 

 

That is why "erosion" is likely not what is happening here.  

 

Until you can prove that the absent material went somewhere else, such as particles or fragments being found on the sponge, then it is likely corrosion, and not erosion.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 21 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[dspdrew]

 

 

I don't think you will be able to stop erosion as long as water flows through a material.

 

Perhaps, what you should do is having a portion of bottom dedicated to being a water tank and let water evaporate upwards instead of having the nest brick/ytong/hydrostone to do the job.

If you take a look at the pictures and read all the previous posts, you will see this is not just a typical case of water flowing through something eroding it away, like the Grand Canyon. This is water simply soaking into a very hard material, and within a matter of hours, creating a small hole straight through a quarter inch of it.

 

That is why "erosion" is likely not what is happening here.  

 

Until you can prove that the absent material went somewhere else, such as particles or fragments being found on the sponge, then it is likely corrosion, and not erosion.

 

 

You are right, I should have used a different term until I knew exactly what is happening to the material. I guess I always used that term, because the water does look a bit cloudy as if it is eroding. Sometimes it even looks like I can see very small particles of Hydrostone in there. I just assumed that even if it was corroding, I might still see something like this. Can it not do both?