10 replies to this topic

[BleepingBleepers]

I got a local vendor friend that brings in stuff. I get some of my centipedes from him, he gets his stuff from all over the world. I'm in the U.S.

 

Anyhow, still new to ants and so I asked him if he ever deals with ants and he says no but he found one in his shop that probably escaped from a shipment box a month back and gave it to me.

I've been keeping it in a poorly put together clay DIY formicarium and recently moved it to another formicarium as it started having a brood (to my surprise because they all looked somewhat the same so I almost felt like I was keeping four worker ants until the large one laid an egg), but I still don't know what it is. Any clue what it is?

It seems to favor protein and not so much sugar water like my carpenters. The queen is about 14-16 mm with workers around 12-13 mm.

They don't seem to have great vision and seem to rely on vibrations and smell like other ants.

 

 

Thanks beforehand.

Edited by BleepingBleepers, October 19 2023 - 11:18 PM.

[ZATrippit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like rhytidoponera (pony ants)? The ant that lays eggs would be a gamergate, a queen substitute in many species where its basically a revolving door of workers laying eggs instead of one queen. They are hard to keep as when that gamergate dies, you would have to find males of the same species to mate with. If I had to guess species, I'd say R. chalybaea, which is found in Australia and New Zealand.

Edited by ZATrippit, October 20 2023 - 1:05 AM.

[Mettcollsuss]

Ectomomyrmex

[BleepingBleepers]

ZATrippit, on 20 Oct 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like rhytidoponera (pony ants)? The ant that lays eggs would be a gamergate, a queen substitute in many species where its basically a revolving door of workers laying eggs instead of one queen. They are hard to keep as when that gamergate dies, you would have to find males of the same species to mate with. If I had to guess species, I'd say R. chalybaea, which is found in Australia and New Zealand.

 

I looked at the google picture of R. Chalybaea and looked closer to the ants I have and while the overall shape looks VERY similar (nice work, they do look surprisingly similar) my worker doesn't have all those body patterns and the head is smoother like the shell of a black beetle kinda.

 

Mettcollsuss, on 20 Oct 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

Ectomomyrmex

I did some search with what you said and my closest guess is Ectomomyrmex astutus

 

What do u think?

 

REALLY nice job narrowing it down to them, they definitely look to be the closest possible. I even looked up the size and they do match.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Can't be Ectomomyrmex leeuwenhoeki as I'm reading they have really small colonies of 10 or less and there's already 7 cocoons, 6+ larvae and eggs so they're definitely reproducing more

Edited by BleepingBleepers, October 20 2023 - 10:38 AM.

[Virginian_ants]

I think it's in the Ectatomminae subfamily it doesn't look like rhytidoponera I think ectatomma. I think they have a queen the one on the wall in the picture looks like it is bigger and differently shaped so I think it's the queen. Even if they are reported to only have ~10 workers or can easily get more because in captivity they have much more resources than the wild.

Edited by Virginian_ants, October 20 2023 - 12:00 PM.

[BleepingBleepers]

Virginian_ants, on 20 Oct 2023 - 7:59 PM, said:

I think it's in the Ectatomminae subfamily it doesn't look like rhytidoponera I think ectatomma. I think they have a queen the one on the wall in the picture looks like it is bigger and differently shaped so I think it's the queen. Even if they are reported to only have ~10 workers or can easily get more because in captivity they have much more resources than the wild.

Oh, I thought it was because of choice? I would imagine if it was because of food, the info on it wouldn't say 10 workers or less, no?

Either that or they have a horrible preference for locations that are scarce in food and high on predators or something to only be able to afford a 10~ worker workforce

 

Here's a few more pictures, sorry, gotta make do with my subpar phone camera until Black Friday comes around, I'm eyeing one along with a cardboard box in case I go homeless soon after purchase

 

 

 

Edited by BleepingBleepers, October 20 2023 - 9:35 PM.

[Mettcollsuss]

BleepingBleepers, on 20 Oct 2023 - 6:10 PM, said:

I did some search with what you said and my closest guess is Ectomomyrmex astutus

 

What do u think?

 

REALLY nice job narrowing it down to them, they definitely look to be the closest possible. I even looked up the size and they do match.

Without knowing where they were collected, I don't know if getting a species ID is possible, especially without microscopy or very good macro. I think it's probably between astutus, javanus, obtusus, sauteri, striolatus, and lobocarenus, but I don't think it can be definitively narrowed down.

 

ZATrippit, on 20 Oct 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like rhytidoponera (pony ants)? The ant that lays eggs would be a gamergate, a queen substitute in many species where its basically a revolving door of workers laying eggs instead of one queen. They are hard to keep as when that gamergate dies, you would have to find males of the same species to mate with. If I had to guess species, I'd say R. chalybaea, which is found in Australia and New Zealand.

This colony has a true queen, not a gamergate, the one standing on the wall in the first photo. Not Rhytidoponera, Rhytidoponera has much larger and more conspicuous sculpturing, larger eyes positioned further back on the head, and a very different petiole shape.

 

Virginian_ants, on 20 Oct 2023 - 7:59 PM, said:

I think it's in the Ectatomminae subfamily it doesn't look like rhytidoponera I think ectatomma. I think they have a queen the one on the wall in the picture looks like it is bigger and differently shaped so I think it's the queen. Even if they are reported to only have ~10 workers or can easily get more because in captivity they have much more resources than the wild.

Ectatomma can be eliminated for similar reasons to Rhytidoponera: larger eyes, eyes further back on the head, often much stronger sculpturing, various tubercles. All other ectatommine genera can be eliminated too, through a combination of eye size and placement, petiole shape, and habitus.

[Virginian_ants]

Okay. Mettcollsuss really is the ID wizard.

[BleepingBleepers]

Alright, I'll try to get you your 'very good macro' shots once I get my camera in a few months, I'm specifically getting it for macro shots and video recording.

 

I'll also ask the guy I got them from if he knows anything else about them like where they could possibly come from.

 

 

I think for the time being, I'll stick with Ectomomyrmex Sp. (Astute?) and change it once I know for certain.

 

Mettcollsuss, on 21 Oct 2023 - 3:24 PM, said:

 

BleepingBleepers, on 20 Oct 2023 - 6:10 PM, said:

I did some search with what you said and my closest guess is Ectomomyrmex astutus

 

What do u think?

 

REALLY nice job narrowing it down to them, they definitely look to be the closest possible. I even looked up the size and they do match.

Without knowing where they were collected, I don't know if getting a species ID is possible, especially without microscopy or very good macro. I think it's probably between astutus, javanus, obtusus, sauteri, striolatus, and lobocarenus, but I don't think it can be definitively narrowed down.

 

[100lols]

So wait he just found these in a box? That’s insane lol! Awesome way to obtain a new colony

[BleepingBleepers]

100lols, on 22 Oct 2023 - 03:33 AM, said:

So wait he just found these in a box? That’s insane lol! Awesome way to obtain a new colony

I'm asking him more about it on Tuesday, but from what he mentioned last time, it was his son who found them in the shop. He helps his dad feed and take care of the animals.

 

Think he let me have them because we both thought they were just 4 worker ants, no queen, and I was going to keep them till their lifespan ran out as workers. Kinda like those ant farms they had for kids back in the days.

I'm still new to ants so to me they all look the same except when I got home, noticed one was very slightly bigger. The only queen I'm familiar with is my carpenter queen and she looks WAY different from her workers.

 

 

I was thinking of making an Ant Journal on these guys for fun and education but I know how some folks are sensitive about ants that don't belong. Not sure if I should, still debating.

 

I mean, I'm guilty as charged since my first reaction to it was "ohhh damn man, yeah I want them, gimme!!" like a kid in a candy store kinda LMAO. Sigh   

Hard saying no to a strange, new animal.