44 replies to this topic

[Mdrogun]

Not sure I follow, why is that weird?

They were all found in dense woodland, nothing anywhere nearby they could possibly be getting nectar or anything from unless it's something that's not flowering somehow.  I've kept them fed on insects and sugar water so far but I've been trying to switch them to formula blue

 

It's weird because the same species a state or two away is super hardy. I know the Camponotus castaneus here are nearly impossible to kill up here. 

[Runner12]

Ah ok.  Well to be fair there haven't really been any deaths, it's really been more of a failure to grow and thrive type thing.  Low levels of activity except the workers will still feed occasionally, and the queen is still kicking, just hasn't laid any eggs in a long time.  It's possible she's a dud and it just took this long to manifest

[Mdrogun]

Ah ok.  Well to be fair there haven't really been any deaths, it's really been more of a failure to grow and thrive type thing.  Low levels of activity except the workers will still feed occasionally, and the queen is still kicking, just hasn't laid any eggs in a long time.  It's possible she's a dud and it just took this long to manifest

But to have it with a ton of queens. I don't think that's probable. I collected 3 lasius neoniger. I think two are duds but 1 already has large larvae. You should not have such a high rate of duds.

[Runner12]

The C. americanus colonies are doing better.  They all have closer to ten workers and recently some of their larvae have started developing again.  Their queens still lay occasionally too.  Not really where I feel like they should be after 4  months but still. The one C. chromaiodes colony that died off had some sort of disease I'm positive due to the way they were behaving which I think had to do with feeding them a wasp I smashed.  A little irritated at myself as they had been doing the best out of all of them and were very active.

 

The C. castaneus colony is doing the "worst" out of all of them.  Even though there hasn't been any deaths in a long time none of their larvae are growing and they just sit around the nest, no foraging, and the queen doesn't lay.  There are only six workers, several of which came from a brood boost. I guess that's sort of why I speculated she might be a dud. 

 

I dunno I'm wondering if these species just aren't going to work in captivity for some reason.  They all just seem "lazy" for lack of a better word, from the refusal to build a nest in the dirt enclosure to the way they just seem to sit around the nest and do nothing.  I was reading another member talk about his C. nicobarensis colony that went from 20 to 200 workers in the span of just a few months, so I don't know what's going on here.

 

I'd like to get a hold of C. floridanus, I'm wondering if they might not do better since they're a more vigorous and aggressive species.  I'd also like to see how C. socius would do since I've seen a few people that have successfully reared them in captivity.  I've kept Pogonomyrmex badius a few times but wasn't able to get any queens this year, they seem to perform better too.

Edited by Runner12, September 3 2015 - 3:00 PM.

[123LordOfAnts123]

I've been unaware of these "idling" Camponotus colonies until drews' journals of his many Camponotus making virtually no progress came to light. It's a scenario I've yet to deal with during ventures with a few select species, of which have been C. floridanus, C. tortuganus, C. castaneus, and C. nearcticus. You're correct in that C. floridanus is extremely pugnacious and fast growing, and I'm willing to bet it's the fastest growing native Camponotus; the most recent colony of them I had reached 2k workers in a year and a half. Living up to their nature that same colony has since chewed its way through a firebrick nest and promptly setup shop in a wall void. They're still there. I also never attempted to hibernate them. Camponotus castaneus have comparitively grown at only a fraction of the pace, but they've been steady growers none the less.

AKA Art Ant is a member from antfarm.yuku who had good luck with colonies of C. americanus and chromaiodes, the latter of which was near production of alates. Sadly he's since vanished, but his journals should still be up.

[Runner12]

I actually did read both of his journals, the only difference so far that I can tell is that he collected two young colonies with 30 or so workers rather than raising them from queens, I'm wondering if this in some way makes a difference.  I've got a 25 worker chromaiodes colony that I caught just recently, but so far they've been pretty "lazy" too.

 

I'll have to see if I can get ahold of C. floridanus.  What sort of conditions do you keep your C. castaneus under?

[Runner12]

Over the past weekend I was able to catch two whole colonies of C. castaneus each with about 15-20 workers under rocks in the woods.  So far they're a lot more active, they have spent a lot of time digging new nests.  Not sure why my colony from the queen is so lazy, but obviously there's a problem.

 

Two of the C. americanus colonies have suddenly had a lot of brood develop from the arrested stage they were in, not sure why this happened, I haven't really changed anything.  I've only had the 25 worker C. chromaiodes colony about two weeks and yet the queen has laid a ton of eggs that have already developed to mid-instar larvae.  The others in my small colonies have been stuck at the same much smaller stage forever.  This sort of seems to rule out temperature or humidity or even need to hibernate as the issue as I'm keeping them under the exact same parameters as the others.

 

Also managed to find two Formica pallidefulva queens and a small Formica subsericea colony, so we'll see if they do any better than Camponotus.

 

Most exciting (for me at least) was finding what I thought was a small Pogonomyrmex badius colony.  There was no nest cone, the entrance was hidden, and the workers were tiny, so I figured it was a new queen and her nanitics.  The nest was only about a foot and a half deep but I ended up without about 100 workers a few majors and the queen.  Larger than I expected (or wanted really), the nest entrance didn't reflect the colony size at all.  This is my favorite species and I haven't gotten to raise them in a while so we'll see how they do.

Edited by Runner12, September 12 2015 - 4:08 PM.

[john.harrold]

Wouldn't you need to wait at least a season to rule out hibernation?

[Runner12]

Not sure.  Hibernation doesn't make sense to me because the same species in the area around where I am all still have developing brood and are active, and there's still a good month and a half of temperatures in the 70s-80s. 

 

The 15-20 worker C. castaneus colonies I'm almost positive are first year, founded earlier in the spring, and they have twice as many workers and brood in various stages of development, from egg to pupa, and are much more active.  My own colonies from queens haven't grown since around July, not to mention the C. americanus brood which has suddenly begun to grow again.

Edited by Runner12, September 12 2015 - 5:45 PM.

[Menagerie]

I'm new here but I have two species of camponotus that I am currently just trying to get to lay eggs. I am from the eastern side of the Mississippi, however.

I can't say I'm overly versed on your species of camponotus but from the research and documentaries I've seen many Camponotus species are symbiotic with scale and mealy bugs. I even have a trail of them that break into my house to harvest the honey dew off of a group of the scaly bugs on my spider plant. Perhaps this could be a missing aspect of their diet/development?

[Runner12]

I couldn't say.  Given the location I found these though I kind of doubt there were any mealy bugs or scale insects anywhere close by.  I think that's more of a facultative relationship than an obligate one but I could be wrong.

 

I'm going to try getting rid of the sand and using dirt from the woods around here, the newer colonies I have seem to love digging in it.  I'm wondering if I've screwed up their diet somehow by giving them so much honey and sugar water earlier in the founding stages, they seem like they've almost become "addicted" to it for lack of a better word, they won't eat anything else and it isn't good for much other than energy. 

 

Also going to try moving one of my original colonies out of a test tube and into a soil enclosure to see if that makes any sort of difference.

[Runner12]

Turned over a rock a few days ago with what I thought was a whole C. castaneus colony under it with their queen.  Caught all workers I could find and put them all together, but noticed the queen kept trying to get away from them.  I turned my back on them for a few minutes and came back just in time to see two majors grab her and kill her in seconds.  The only thing I can figure is that there must have been a new queen in her claustral chamber under the same rock as a portion of a large colony. 
 

Decided to try to combine this large queenless colony fragment with my smallest C. castaneus colony that has just been idling as previous mentioned.  It took about two weeks but the process worked.  I first let the large fragment sit for a week in an empty tupperware container, just offering water.  I then refrigerated them and put the test tube containing the six nanitics and queen in with them with some metal mesh over the mouth of the tube and let them warm up.  I left them like this for another week, and I fed them in front of the test tube which got them interested in investigating it some. 

 

Finally I refrigerated all ants and then introduced ten workers to the test tube with the queen and her nanitics and let them warm up.  They were immediately very interested in the queen and spent a long time licking her and crowding around her.  I took the test tube and placed it by itself in another tupperware container.  Over the past few days I've been adding about five ants per day to the enclosure and letting them discover the test tube.  They've all moved in with no trouble except for a little aggression from the nanitics that dies down within minutes.  They all make a beeline for the queen, interestingly, and they seem more interested in her than her own daughters.  A few days ago I went ahead and added in the rest of the fragment, and so far it looks like they have adopted the queen and her nanitics without any problems.  Still waiting to see if she'll lay. 

 

Thought this process might be of use to someone who has a larger colony where the queen has died and needs to replace her.  It worked for me at least!

Edited by Runner12, September 16 2015 - 7:45 PM.

[James C. Trager]

Forest ants get nectar from the surfaces of galls and buds, and from extrafloral nectaries, not to mention the honeydew they gather from scale insects, aphids, etc. Ants in flowery habitats get most of their carbohydrates from these sources, too, not from flowers themselves. Forest ants have no shortage of carbohydrates, and require them just as much as other ants, unless they're strict predators such as ponerines and Strumigenys.

Edited by James C. Trager, January 21 2017 - 7:55 AM.

[Runner12]

Thanks for the reply, OK so do you have any advice on how best to replicate that in captivity? Would hummingbird nectar work?

[john.harrold]

This seems relevant to my feeding habits. I have C. sansabeanus that I got from Drew back in June. It took about six weeks before my first set of workers eclosed. I went from six to twelve in that period. The colony currently has a small clutch of eggs (5-10) and about three larve and a couple pupa. From reading it seems like food was the limiting factor in growth. It also seems like they prefer fresh liquid food. So I made a conscious decision to  feed them continuously. Each night I give them fresh food. This can be formula blue, SUNBURST nectar, or just sweet fruit. I try to mix it up (they really liked the grapes). I also normally sprinkle whey protein on the food (chocolate flavored if your interested ) as well so that they will be forced to get protein mixed in with the carbohydrates. I can say that their gasters are generally full and I see workers coming back and feeding the queen, workers and larva.  These are currently in a test tube setting in an outworld. I'm waiting on a Grotube/Arena and I'll transfer them into that once it arrives. 

[Runner12]

Ok, think I'll try nightly feedings too.  I'll see if that improves their growth rate any, thanks for the advice.  Yeah mine used to love grapes too, but then for some reason they just started ignoring them, refusing to accept anything except honey/sugar water.  I'll try adding them back in though.

[Loops117]

Revive this.

[Serafine]

When do you offer them food? Most Camponotus forage during the night.

Did you check the moisture levels? Camponotus are usually dry-loving (some of them are even so dry-loving that they regularly nest in tubing).

Is the air flow sufficient? Do they have enough nesting space? (did you try satellite nests, Camponotus love satellite nests, preferably heated ones to store the pupae there)

Are you sure they aren't infected with mites or fungus? Did you try raising them in different rooms? (or, if possible, a different house)

Do they have a proper day/night cycle?

[Loops117]

I always thought Camponotus we're a relatively easy to keep species in general. I had no clue. Luckily for us northerners, C.pennsylvanicus and C.noveboracensis are easily kept. I'm still on the hunt for C.modoc myself.

[Batspiderfish]

I've had lots of success with Lasius parasites, but meager success with Camponotus, what everybody calls easy.