8 replies to this topic

[Dendovy]

Hi everyone, unfortunately my Messor barbarus colony has grown too large for me too handle. The seeds they require are easy enough to supply but it has become impossible for me to clean their outworld without getting overrun by angry ladies. In addition, they have become quite difficult to contain since they started to chew trough my plastic tubes connecting the outworld and nest. The last escape had about 100 workers on the loose and I would rather not deal with this again (more so calming the angry relatives in the house). My question is now, how do you guys deal with this? Is it time for me to put the colony down? Releasing is out of the question since they are not native to my area.
Thanks for the insights in advance!

[AntsCali098]

I would try to give it away/sell on this site.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

Culling is likely the answer. Generally speaking the father away from the nest/more time out of the nest an ant spends, the older it is.

If you  vaccume up ants from the outworld and freeze them they will die. You can just cull their numbers down until you find their size managable.

 

My own XP, which is not a lot,  is that a good nest/outworld ratio is something 1/20 or better. When the outworld space is too small, from the Ant's POV it may all be nest and they will behave differently towards the space than if they see some of it as inside nest and some of it as outside nest.

Far fewer of them will just hang out in the outworld, if from their POV it is outside not inside. This can help allow an easier time to clean the otuworld if there are just a lot fewer of them willing to hang out in that space.


While my colony has not outgrown my space yet i know they could one day. So i'm doing my best to keep my nest/outworld ratio really high on the outworld side.
I got a Tarheel Ants fallen fortress. Top down veiw nest is about 9 sq inches (3"x3"), with a 4x4x5 attached outworld and another 8x5x5 outworld attached to that (about 1.5" tube connection).

And i got a 11x7x9 outworld on order.

 

A recent count was about 175 ants and 130+ brood item(+ is a couple egg and tiny larvae clutches).
At this time, maybe 200 ants now + ever growing brood pile.
They have taken over the small 4x4 outworld as nest space. They do all nest stuff out there including keep brood sometimes when conditions are just right.
I can't do any work in hat outworld without a glove or they wold be all over my hand.
I have pogonomyrmex occidentalis which are terrible climbers and can't stay on thin sandwich baggie style plastic gloves.

 

Once they are large enough to expand the nest space again(i can double it or slightly more) that's going t be all the space they can ever get where i currently live.
And i'll have to start culling their numbers to keep them at a decent size for the space they can have here.

Again i can know the older ants are more commonly farther away form the nest so i'll cull form the farthest away outworld when the time comes.


in terms of them chewing the tubes not real sure what you can do. Maybe look into different tube materials to see if there is something tough enough to keep them.
Maybe acrylic or glass tubes instead of the soft flexible materials?
My pogonomyrmex occidentalis tear up everything they can and dig new holes into the outworld plaster type material regularly but don't mess with the tubing.

[Ernteameise]

As said above, the only options would be selling them, getting a bigger enclosure for them, or culling parts of the colony.
Selling them could be an issue, I am not sure where you are from, but the biggest German trading site is full of large Messor colonies people have been trying to sell for months.
I can understand if room is an issue, so maybe culling parts of the colony might be your only option.
Is this against animal welfare and cruel?
I leave that for your conscience to decide.
Ants are killed and eaten by predators every day, parts of colonies die with bad weather, nature is pretty cruel and unforgiving.
If you look at ant scientific papers, the culling of colonies and taking certain castes and older, outdoor foraging ants away is done frequently.
Edward O. Wilson even kept a „ Bonsai“ colony in his office, he was „ pruning“ it on a regular basis.
And would you really call him an animal abuser?
If you do it right and do not add extra stress by destroying the nest and chase ants around, and quickly kill them by freezing, this is a humane ( ish) way.
FullFrontalYeti above gives some good advice.
With Messors, you could also take away some of the oldest and largest majors which are the most likely to destroy the tubing.

Edited by Ernteameise, July 17 2023 - 9:00 AM.

[ZTYguy]

There are a few options for you so you don’t have to sell them.

1. Cull workers periodically (Feed carcasses to other colonies or animals)

2. Limit good supply (The colony can only grow if you give it enough food, without that they cannot grow further)

3. Give them another outworld (More space, less aggression)

[gs5248]

After a certain point, I would move them into a natural setup to be honest. When the colony gets extremely large like that, I find that having them in a regular formicarium outworld setup gets extremely impractical.

[BleepingBleepers]

Just wanna say, nice question, I was curious about this as well. Even though my colony is only Queen + 8, I like to plan ahead.

 

That's why for me, to take steps beforehand, I chose an ant species that grows on the slow side (carpenter ants), I also plan to lower the temperature to the minimal where they can still develop but slow it as much as possible, and limit the food. I'll probably do this to my honeypots as well, sooner the better since their colonies grow significantly faster. Like I hear they can deal with 88F or so, lowest but enough for them to develop is 78-80F, that's where I'm gonna keep them at.

 

 

Anybody consider selling their ants as feeder insects to possible local keepers that have lizards or other animals that eat ants? Maybe to the zoo? I mean, it won't be a whole lot, but I dunno, the thought came across my mind. I recall a long time ago looking into some lizards and found out they loved eating carpenter ants.

 

OHHH maybe get a pet that eats ants? 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I just thought of something.....some ants I heard are edible. I JUST googled if carpenter ants are edible for us, I see a yes! Yummy yummy in my tummy   Though I will research it more. I have eaten ants before, they sold it at the Asian market with a bunch of ant eggs. I did recall it having a bit of a strong ammonia smell though.... Chocolate ants or BBQ ants

Edited by BleepingBleepers, July 17 2023 - 6:24 PM.

[M_Ants]

I have a colony of Veromessor pergandei that could potentially grow into massive colony that I've kept in a 4 x 6 inch formicarium for years now just by not feeding a ton. 

[Dendovy]

First off, thank you everyone for the replys!
It was a tough decision for me but I decided to cull the ants in the outworld. I disconnected the tubing and cleared out one section of the freezer (idk if that is the right name for it) and put them in for 10 minutes, I figured that would be enough. To my surprise a lot of them were still moving around. I then left them for a further 30 minutes and they were all dead. Afterwards I collected all the workers (several hundreds and gave them to my pet fish and some to my grandfather's canarys (although the latter did not care much for them), since I did not want them to go to waste.

I have to add that it was quite tough to watch a colony I nurtured die in such numbers, but if I want too keep doing this I could no longer keep things the way they were. In my first post I also forgot to mention the smell that came with not being able to clean the outworld. I believe the colony are reduced by a little over half but there are still hundreds in the nest. Another positive side effect of the culling is that almost all alates have died in the process (I figure only about 10 remain), so there is less stress for me that one day I will wake up to all of them flying about.

Have a nice day everyone!