7 replies to this topic

[Formiga]

Boy for a moment I thought I got a real crisis here but she seems to be able to somehow deal with it...

For a moment I thought I had a real problem here and even had the full request for help post written and as I was revising it I took a peek on her and she seems to be more or less dealing with it now. She still seems to have a bit if cotton on her (about the size of her thorax) but she's taking care of her eggs now. She's still pulling it off, it's just 3 or 4 wires of cotton that are stuck on her. Lets see how she manages it...

 

So what happened? My Messor queen got caught on the cotton ball from the exit end of her syringe with a string of cotton twisted up on one side of her jaw and she couldn't get rid of it and was panicking. She was stuck on the cotton ball freaking out!

 

She was inside her syringe with her eggs but no nanitics yet, and since the syringes hold little amount of water she ran dry and probably started pulling on the cotton ball to get away in search for more moist conditions and got stuck there.

As I finally now have proper test tubes, I made her a new home and when I removed the cotton ball she came attached to it, I thought she still thought she was inside the dry syringe or freaked out because of being manipulated and was fighting the cotton ball. Then I realized she wasn't letting go and was in fact stuck.

 

The thing is, the more you twist cotton the more resistant it gets. That's how we make clothes and we can't rip them apart easily, right?

 

So I tried to remove as much cotton I could, at least I managed to get her unstuck from the cotton ball but she still has a little bit left stuck on her and she was still freaking out for a while.

 

I had an adrenaline rush too, tried to remain calm and help her out, peeling bits of cotton to leave the least possible cotton stuck on her jaw. I tried to push her gently away from the cotton ball but she was really stuck and I didn't want to tear her jaw off or break her legs or squash her dead... Ended up pulling little bits of cotton wire with a couple of fine tip tweezers. This is microsurgery stuff...

 

I thought about placing her on the fridge to calm her down so I could try to do something with a couple of fine tip tweezers while minimizing injuring her. I don't want to rip her jaw off or hurt one of her legs with the tweezers... And I don't even know for how long should I place her on the fridge.

 

I also thought about wetting the cotton she has stuck on, if that eventually could make it softer and easier to unwind or break apart, or if it would made it worst...

 

She can pick up and carry her eggs and somewhat take care of them, so it doesn't seem to be that critical or urgent. But she's still fighting it and spending a good amount of energy on this, and I don't know if she can even be fed on this conditions...

 

What should I do? Should I leave this up to herself, should I attempt anything?

In all of this, what should be the least worse thing to do?

Many many thanks for any hints guys.

Edited by Formiga, May 16 2023 - 1:45 PM.

[Ernteameise]

I actually would wait.
It will stress out the queen no end and might harm her if you do more microsurgery.
She won’t eat at the moment anyways, and when she has her first workers, she will be fed and hopefully they all work together getting the thing out.
It might be like cotton string with cats, so she has swallowed some cotton and then pulling will also damage the insides. Then only a vet can help.
For now, keep her dark and calm and let her settle down and avoid more stress.
I keep my fingers crossed.

[Formiga]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yeah this is basically the conclusion I also came to. Nothing much I can do...

 

I never thought an ant could swallow a string of cotton but I believe this might have happened. Well, it's called gaining experience by living thought the things you never thought to be possible...
I had her here in front of me for observation for 24 hours and the last time I checked it seems possible that she could have swallowed it, since there was no visible strings around her jaw.

 

She seemed calm and quiet most of the time, but I've seen her having some sort of panic attach and grabbing her eggs and moving them around. I've seen her trying to get rid of the thing and even falling on her back out of nothing.

But again, there's nothing I can do more, the risks outweigh possible benefits.

Luckily I could see she has a pupa getting brown, so she could have started creating her exoskeleton (if this is really what happens) and soon she will have her first nani to help her out. Maybe she can be fed and eventually the nanitics can cut the string out of her...

 

I placed her in the dark inside the cardboard box along the other queens and I'll check her out in some 3 days or so... Lets see how this goes. And I'll post an update here.

 

 

 

"Then only a vet can help."

I'm assuming you're referring to cats but good point, is there an ant vet?

Can you get to a vet clinic and say I have here a queen ant that has swallowed some cotton, can you remove it?

Then it would have been the vet scratching their head and having another professional story to tell...

The next time I go to the vet because of my cat I'll ask if they treat ants, vaccinate them, weight them, place a microchip on them and sell me an ant leash so I can walk her around outside...

(insert old style movies canned laughter here)

 

[Ernteameise]

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yeah this is basically the conclusion I also came to. Nothing much I can do...

 

I never thought an ant could swallow a string of cotton but I believe this might have happened. Well, it's called gaining experience by living thought the things you never thought to be possible...
I had her here in front of me for observation for 24 hours and the last time I checked it seems possible that she could have swallowed it, since there was no visible strings around her jaw.

 

She seemed calm and quiet most of the time, but I've seen her having some sort of panic attach and grabbing her eggs and moving them around. I've seen her trying to get rid of the thing and even falling on her back out of nothing.

But again, there's nothing I can do more, the risks outweigh possible benefits.

Luckily I could see she has a pupa getting brown, so she could have started creating her exoskeleton (if this is really what happens) and soon she will have her first nani to help her out. Maybe she can be fed and eventually the nanitics can cut the string out of her...

 

I placed her in the dark inside the cardboard box along the other queens and I'll check her out in some 3 days or so... Lets see how this goes. And I'll post an update here.

 

 

 

"Then only a vet can help."

I'm assuming you're referring to cats but good point, is there an ant vet?

Can you get to a vet clinic and say I have here a queen ant that has swallowed some cotton, can you remove it?

Then it would have been the vet scratching their head and having another professional story to tell...

The next time I go to the vet because of my cat I'll ask if they treat ants, vaccinate them, weight them, place a microchip on them and sell me an ant leash so I can walk her around outside...

(insert old style movies canned laughter here)

 

Yeah, I think it is best to just let her calm down for a few days and leaver her alone, maybe she sorts herself out.

 

Yes, I was referring to cats.

 

Haha, no, there are not vets for ants as far as I know.

I am a vet myself (Wildlife, main interest birds) but I only KEEP ants (would not even think about treating). I have looked for publications, but there is literally NO veterinary scientific literature about ants, and only very little about insects in general.

There are a few books about bees, and I recently bought a bee pathology book from a colleague of mine. But that is as close as it gets.

There is simply no knowledge to even think about attempting to treat ants at this point.

And this kind of microsurgery... there are crazy surgeons out there, even some who do surgery on fish eyes, but removing a cotton string from the gut of an ant.... that would really be pushing it.

So sadly, not much you can do but hope and keep the queen as stress-free as possible.

 

But slightly good news- as you see, there are a very select few of vets (like me and one of my colleagues at the lab) who take an interest in ants and keep them and learn about them and you can be sure that we will be carrying the torch and tell out friends and colleagues about this. I literally cannot shut up about it anymore, and my wildlife vet friends have taken note.

If ant keeping is continuing to be popular, and becomes mainstream and many people keep ants at home, then there certainly is a market and this will become a niche topic on exotic animal vet conferences.

I can see some very dim light at the horizon!

Edited by Ernteameise, May 18 2023 - 12:41 AM.

[Formiga]

Thanks again for commenting, @Ernteameise.

 

I'm in such a curiosity to check on her... But she's in the box with a dozen+ more queens, so I'd disturb them all, so I'll check on her tomorrow or the day after.

 

The other part of your comment impressed me, I see a Man with a driving passion!

I'm here all alone in Portugal. I've been trying to reach out to other ant enthusiasts in the country, I know they do exist. I've seen a group on facebook (but since I don't have [and don't want to have] an account, I'm locked out) and there was a TV news piece some years ago. I've written some emails to Portuguese ants YouTubers but only one has replied and I've only exchanged a couple of emails with him and he gave me some precious orientations. He's still ant keeping but he has no time to update his channel anymore.

 

I have to email a teacher I had on a museum objects photography workshop I had 10 years ago, he was a Biologist and since he works with the National History museum he may know some people. And I had a colleague there that was doing a Ph.D. on butterflies, so she also might know people. I have to email them...
It would be nice to have a group of geeks talking about these ant things, share tips, go out butts up in the field looking for queen ants, etc. And the National History museum would be the perfect headquarters for this. It's far from where I live, but as I say (and no religious context here whatsoever!), If Mohammed doesn't go to the mountain, the mountain will avalanche over Mohammed. Meaning, it might be hard work, but if this has to happen, it will happen.

Ah, Men and their passions...

[Ernteameise]

 

Thanks again for commenting, @Ernteameise.

 

I'm in such a curiosity to check on her... But she's in the box with a dozen+ more queens, so I'd disturb them all, so I'll check on her tomorrow or the day after.

 

The other part of your comment impressed me, I see a Man with a driving passion!

I'm here all alone in Portugal. I've been trying to reach out to other ant enthusiasts in the country, I know they do exist. I've seen a group on facebook (but since I don't have [and don't want to have] an account, I'm locked out) and there was a TV news piece some years ago. I've written some emails to Portuguese ants YouTubers but only one has replied and I've only exchanged a couple of emails with him and he gave me some precious orientations. He's still ant keeping but he has no time to update his channel anymore.

 

I have to email a teacher I had on a museum objects photography workshop I had 10 years ago, he was a Biologist and since he works with the National History museum he may know some people. And I had a colleague there that was doing a Ph.D. on butterflies, so she also might know people. I have to email them...
It would be nice to have a group of geeks talking about these ant things, share tips, go out butts up in the field looking for queen ants, etc. And the National History museum would be the perfect headquarters for this. It's far from where I live, but as I say (and no religious context here whatsoever!), If Mohammed doesn't go to the mountain, the mountain will avalanche over Mohammed. Meaning, it might be hard work, but if this has to happen, it will happen.

Ah, Men and their passions...

 

I totally understand you.

I basically have now bought every current book about ants I could get my hands on (just today I bought the book about army ants: Army Ants: Nature's Ultimate Social Hunters, yes, it is expensive, but every reviewer is absolutely in love with the book and the pictures! So ordered the hardcover from the UK).

I also have joined the antkeeping reddit and the Facebook group, just to get into contact with similar crazy people.

But meeting them face to face.... quite a bit harder.

 

I hope you can get a group together. Good luck!

Edited by Ernteameise, May 19 2023 - 3:40 PM.

[Formiga]

Quick update since it's been a month now.

 

She seems to be doing fine.

Although no signs of the 1st nany that by the time seemed to be a dark pupa. She still has a lot of eggs and pupae but none is dark. So most chances is that I was just wrong. I thought that by now (and the last weeks' temperature here where they are has been around 21 - 24ºC) that they would have already been ecloded, but then again, I'm still a nooby noob noob and they are the 1st time I'm taking care of Messors.

 

I had her test tube on top my desk and I wanted to giver her a closer observation and when I noticed I had my cat on top of the table where the nesting ants' cardboard box is, with her paws inside the box, sniffing around, with all the ants freaking out, I was freaking out...

And then I noticed another queen had her 1st nany ecloded, so I paid more attention to her.

 

But I guess all will be fine, it's just a matter of waiting a little more until her first daughters eclode and then start to take care of her.

I'll report back as things progress.

[Formiga]

Final update: She's fine!

 

It took her a long time but she finally is a mother.

And she was able to remove the cotton string from her jaw.

She has 6 or 7 daughters now and has laid new eggs and everything seems to be going fine.

One pattern I'm observing is that the queens that had laid eggs first (like 3 months ago) had their first workers very small and it took more time between eclosions. These queens that are having their first nanies later have them much bigger (more time to be fed and develop?) and also a lot of them eclode in the next days.

 

 

Meanwhile I got a scare moment because she got stuck again on the cotton but she was again able to remove it.

She is pretty nervous and is scared more easily than other queens, sometimes even the vibration of me cleaning my throat 1 meter away from her scares her but not other queens.

I've also seen queens pulling on the cotton but it's the wet one. They do it for a while and then let go. I have no idea why they do this.

 

I've also noticed this behavior on another queen but she's also fine.

So not an isolated case, and I suspect this might be due to stress.

 

And too small to be able to see on nanitics, but I've had a couple of them tangling themselves on the dry cotton ball to death. Don't know if they got easily stuck or they wanted so much to escape (hungry?) they went for do or die.

 

 

But yeah, all is fine. If this ever happens to you just keep cool, take her out and gently and safely try to remove as much cotton you can from her, even if you have to hold her between your fingers. Just don't squash her, don't brake her legs and please don't rip her head apart!!

She'll drag along what you couldn't remove but at least she'll get unstuck and will be able to move around, eat and drink, and take care of her brood. She might be constantly freaking out with it but eventually she'll remove the cotton fibers from her jaws.