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Controversial Ant Keeping Opinions & Stories

controversial opinion hot take stories

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#1 Offline Ender Ants - Posted June 13 2023 - 1:20 PM

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Hello all,

 

I'm working on a video talking about hot takes people have on ant keeping such as illegal trading, keeping invasive ants, and the like.

 

Mainly coming on here to ask if anyone has had any bad/weird stories people with others in the ant keeping community, and if there's any interesting topics I should cover that not a lot of people know about (Like certain ant species going extinct, new ant species, stories of people that have been fined for illegally selling queen ants, etc.)

 

 

Fellow Ant Keeper,

Ender

 

 


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#2 Offline LowQualityAnts - Posted June 13 2023 - 6:46 PM

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More ender ants videos?
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#3 Offline AntsCali098 - Posted June 13 2023 - 6:56 PM

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You could partly talk about scamming in the ant community.

There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?

If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.

Honestly kind of stupidly, he always sets his location in Florida, making some new Florida ant keepers who join falsely accused.

There hasn't been much from him as far as I know lately, so maybe he's thankfully stopped.

I'm glad the legend is back!

Edited by AntsCali098, June 13 2023 - 6:59 PM.

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#4 Offline antsriondel - Posted June 13 2023 - 6:58 PM

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I was just about to post about this. Looks like you got there first!

 

You could partly talk about scamming in the ant community.

There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?

If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.

Honestly kind of stupidly, he always sets his location in Florida, making some new Florida ant keepers who join falsely accused.

There hasn't been much from him as far as I know lately, so maybe he's thankfully stopped.

It's something you could talk about.


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#5 Offline antsriondel - Posted June 13 2023 - 6:59 PM

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You have to fit in something about antscanada and his decline in being a good ant keeper.


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#6 Offline Ender Ants - Posted June 13 2023 - 8:34 PM

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More ender ants videos?

 

Only time will tell, but yes, I have made my return recently  :D


 

I was just about to post about this. Looks like you got there first!

 

You could partly talk about scamming in the ant community.

There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?

If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.

Honestly kind of stupidly, he always sets his location in Florida, making some new Florida ant keepers who join falsely accused.

There hasn't been much from him as far as I know lately, so maybe he's thankfully stopped.

It's something you could talk about.

 

 

Great minds think alike  B)


You have to fit in something about antscanada and his decline in being a good ant keeper.

 

Ah yes, I was supposed to make a video on AntsCanada before I took a break. I'll be sure to add something about him in the video. 


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#7 Offline antsriondel - Posted June 14 2023 - 6:51 AM

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More ender ants videos?

 

Only time will tell, but yes, I have made my return recently  :D


 

I was just about to post about this. Looks like you got there first!

 

You could partly talk about scamming in the ant community.

There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?

If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.

Honestly kind of stupidly, he always sets his location in Florida, making some new Florida ant keepers who join falsely accused.

There hasn't been much from him as far as I know lately, so maybe he's thankfully stopped.

It's something you could talk about.

 

 

Great minds think alike  B)


You have to fit in something about antscanada and his decline in being a good ant keeper.

 

Ah yes, I was supposed to make a video on AntsCanada before I took a break. I'll be sure to add something about him in the video. 

 

Sorry for this being off-topic, but I was wondering why was there no updates on YouTube about your colonies?


Edited by antsriondel, June 14 2023 - 12:39 PM.


#8 Offline Hothkinstroy - Posted June 14 2023 - 7:02 AM

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I personally don't see an issue with illegal ant keeping aside from the law. As long as you aren't keeping heavily invasive Geminata and stuff like that, there is really no huge problem in my opinion. Just be responsible, be fair, expect a possibility of being scammed or the ants arriving dead, and that's basically it. I don't really get why everyone cares about Team Native or Team Invasive, in the first place, you shouldn't be taking anything Ants Canada says seriously or as a fact now that he's been doing YouTube commercially for the past six or seven years now. Illegal ant keeping or legal ant keeping isn't the problem (again, assuming you can mentally get passed the law aspect), it's the people that take things too seriously and cause drama about it. In other words, none of this "hot take" type ant keeping stuff really matters unless if its actually an ecological problem.


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#9 Offline Manitobant - Posted June 14 2023 - 12:33 PM

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You could partly talk about scamming in the ant community.
There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?
If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.
Honestly kind of stupidly, he always sets his location in Florida, making some new Florida ant keepers who join falsely accused.
There hasn't been much from him as far as I know lately, so maybe he's thankfully stopped.
I'm glad the legend is back!

preny never stops, he just goes dormant for a while. Guaranteed he’ll be back


Also something you didn’t mention about him is that he originally terrorized the discord community before moving onto FC and literally raided servers with his alts.
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#10 Offline Ernteameise - Posted June 14 2023 - 12:39 PM

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Well, on a German trading website, you can buy pretty much any species you desire... ranging from Carebara diversa to the bullet ant.

They even offer some invasive species and even write in the offer that it is an invasive species.

That is a bit scary, to be honest.

Will it cause damage? Probably not. But there is still a chance it might.

I also do not know how many of the adds on the site are scammers.

 

However, I personally made a very good and nice experience on that said trading site.

I bought my main Messor barbarus colony from a fellow ant keeper.

He is doing what some of the US members do on this forum in their respective states, he goes around Europe (probably during his summer vacation) and collects queens and then later sells the colonies to make some money.

I was actually amazed how much he cared for the ants, he wanted to make sure they got to a good home, wanted to see pictures of my setup and I was close to sending him my veterinary credentials.

I have heard some really bad things of people selling puppies online or from the back of a car, no questions asked- so just imagine my positive amazement at dealing with a very caring online ant trader!

 

I just wanted to weigh in with a POSITIVE experience.


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#11 Offline Serafine - Posted June 14 2023 - 1:06 PM

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There's someone on formicultute known as preny, do you know about him?

If you don't, he is a scammer that has created I think 50+ alts, triking people and saying he has "free ants" only trying to get their personal information.

Pretty sure it was waaaaaay above 50 accounts. Also from what I remember (he was annoying the various chatservers even harder than the forums) he may have had some sort of autism or something similar (that might explain his obession) and multiple times he came up with some story of somebody having died/being ill/him being ill/himhaving had an accident, etc. to gather sympathy, also he frequently said he had colonies of ant XY and then used pictures from google or said he can't post pictures because his phone/camera was broken/missing/somewhere else/out of battery etc.

Pretty wild stuff at times.

 

You have to fit in something about antscanada and his decline in being a good ant keeper.

The real question is, was he ever a good keeper in the first place?
Yes, his older tutorials are way better than the drama-liden soap opera he keeps churning out these days, but for most of his "antkeeping career" he kept species that were very easy to raise and either considered classic beginner species or hard to kill invasives.
And the ones that weren't mostly didn't do that great.

 

I personally don't see an issue with illegal ant keeping aside from the law. As long as you aren't keeping heavily invasive Geminata and stuff like that, there is really no huge problem in my opinion. Just be responsible, be fair, expect a possibility of being scammed or the ants arriving dead, and that's basically it. I don't really get why everyone cares about Team Native or Team Invasive, in the first place, you shouldn't be taking anything Ants Canada says seriously or as a fact now that he's been doing YouTube commercially for the past six or seven years now. Illegal ant keeping or legal ant keeping isn't the problem (again, assuming you can mentally get passed the law aspect), it's the people that take things too seriously and cause drama about it. In other words, none of this "hot take" type ant keeping stuff really matters unless if its actually an ecological problem.

Ah yes, the "it doesn't matter - until it's a problem" approach.

The line of thinking that brought us such fine experiences as the climate crisis, the 2008 financial crash, the Texas power grid breakdown, the global pandemic response disaster, the Fukushima meltdown and the three day special operation.

Because ignoring stuff until it becomes a problem is just so convenient.

 

 

I don't think you understand how invasive organisms work. There is no real way of telling which exact species will do great in which new environment - it's basically russian roulette but instead of a gun you're using a nuclear bomb.

Only a fraction of organisms introduced into a new environment will manage to establish themselves and out of those only a fraction is going to cause a problem - but when they do, there's a decent chance it's going to be on a scale that makes several native species go extinct or collapses an entire ecosystem (New Zealand's wasps, Christmans Island's yellow crazy ants and the Nil perches of Lake Victoria are perfect examples).

 

Ants as an entire group are by default at high risk of becoming very problematic invasives, no matter the genus, due to their high degree of organization and the way the interact with their environment.

 

Out of the traits that make an organism likely to become invasive ants tick pretty much every single box (fast growth, rapid reproduction, high dispersal ability via flying alates or budding colonies, phenotype plasticity aka the ability to alter growth form to suit current conditions, tolerance of a wide range of environmental conditions, the ability to live off of a wide range of food types, association with humans, prior successful invasions), PLUS they have the added bonus of eusociality which automatically puts them way above almost any other group of animals, PLUS they interact with other organisms, particularly insects that damage plants - which is why ants by default are themselves classified as plant pests.

 

There is a reason the list of the top 100 worst invasive organisms on the entire planet - a list that covers everything from single-cellular micro-organisms to plants, to funghi, to birds/fish/amphibians/jellyfish/molluscs/mammals/etc. - contains FIVE ant species*, plus two species of wasps and one species of termite, for a total of 8 eusocial insect species.

That is almost 10% of a list that draws its entries from the entire clade of life on this planet.

 

 

You can stick your fingers into your ears and scream lalala all day long but that doesn't make this uncomfortable reality go away.

 

 

*and i wouldn't be surprised if a future version of this list would contain at least six ant species, considering what Myrmica rubra is currently doing in Canada and the Northern US.


Edited by Serafine, June 14 2023 - 1:33 PM.

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#12 Offline AntTitan - Posted June 14 2023 - 1:51 PM

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I don't know if this is hot topic or opinion but just because some ants are invasive certainly doesn't mean the ants themselves are bad and in some cases while they are invasive they aren't disruptive to the ecosystem and can sometimes even be good. Like a good example is Tetemorium Immigrans which is technically an invasive species here in Idaho. However they aren't bad for the ecosystem, they don't out compete other native ant species, they aren't hurting any other native community. Also because of the way tetramorium like to nest under rocks they thrive in urban/suburban areas like under pavement, asphalt, etc, which fills a niche/enviornment that other native ant species up here are slow to fill. That allows them to do an ants job in the ecosystem as a decomposer and a clean up crew to insects and ice cream spills alike.  Also because of their prevalence and tendency to nest in urban/suburban areas, other invasive species like solonopsis invicta not only have to battle the harsh winters which kill most tropical invasive ants they then have to compete with tetomorium and other native ant species which is a big reason tropical invasive ants still haven't been able to get a big foothold up here despite ravaging many lower states and countrys.

 

Also I love your videos Ender Ants and if you could include me that would be crazy!


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#13 Offline antsriondel - Posted June 14 2023 - 2:46 PM

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I don't know if this is hot topic or opinion but just because some ants are invasive certainly doesn't mean the ants themselves are bad and in some cases while they are invasive they aren't disruptive to the ecosystem and can sometimes even be good. Like a good example is Tetemorium Immigrans which is technically an invasive species here in Idaho. However they aren't bad for the ecosystem, they don't out compete other native ant species, they aren't hurting any other native community. Also because of the way tetramorium like to nest under rocks they thrive in urban/suburban areas like under pavement, asphalt, etc, which fills a niche/enviornment that other native ant species up here are slow to fill. That allows them to do an ants job in the ecosystem as a decomposer and a clean up crew to insects and ice cream spills alike.  Also because of their prevalence and tendency to nest in urban/suburban areas, other invasive species like solonopsis invicta not only have to battle the harsh winters which kill most tropical invasive ants they then have to compete with tetomorium and other native ant species which is a big reason tropical invasive ants still haven't been able to get a big foothold up here despite ravaging many lower states and countrys.

 

Also I love your videos Ender Ants and if you could include me that would be crazy!

I agree, but I also think that there are two sides. One I agree that some species can benefit the ecosystem. On the other hand I cannot overlook invasive species that have destroyed local ecosystems like Solenopsis, linepithema and Brachyponera chinensis, just to name a few.



#14 Offline Ants.co - Posted June 14 2023 - 2:52 PM

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I caught a Solenopsis Geminata queen in Thailand where they are very well established and are literally everywhere, and now that I have raised her into a juvenile-sized colony, I'm thinking of releasing them into THE EXACT PLACE that I found them... Yet there are still people who rat me out on this. Talk about controversial  :greeting:



#15 Offline Flu1d - Posted June 14 2023 - 3:01 PM

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You are releasing invasive ants into the wild, and nobody "ratted" you out (I assume you do not know what that word means), they just told you that it is extremely irresponsible. It doesn't matter if they are local, releasing an established invasive colony only hurts native ants more. Especially one as destructive as geminata.

It's so weird how you are practically BEGGING for support here, but no one will ever be on your side because it's people like YOU that make the ecosystem worse.

Good job doubling down on being a scumbag.

#16 Offline AntTitan - Posted June 14 2023 - 3:21 PM

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You are releasing invasive ants into the wild, and nobody "ratted" you out (I assume you do not know what that word means), they just told you that it is extremely irresponsible. It doesn't matter if they are local, releasing an established invasive colony only hurts native ants more. Especially one as destructive as geminata.

It's so weird how you are practically BEGGING for support here, but no one will ever be on your side because it's people like YOU that make the ecosystem worse.

Good job doubling down on being a scumbag.

ayyyoo bro I get it I love ants too, we all know how bad some invasive ants can be. But Damn bro, especially in areas where they are already extremely prevalent, him releasing them isn't going to make that big of a difference. yes ideally we don't want any invasive species but we have them and in areas like that their not going anywhere and while they might get pushed back they're not going to disappear so theirs no point in getting so pissed off at bro for something that overall isn't going to make that much difference in a environment already filled with them.


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#17 Offline AntTitan - Posted June 14 2023 - 3:27 PM

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I don't know if this is hot topic or opinion but just because some ants are invasive certainly doesn't mean the ants themselves are bad and in some cases while they are invasive they aren't disruptive to the ecosystem and can sometimes even be good. Like a good example is Tetemorium Immigrans which is technically an invasive species here in Idaho. However they aren't bad for the ecosystem, they don't out compete other native ant species, they aren't hurting any other native community. Also because of the way tetramorium like to nest under rocks they thrive in urban/suburban areas like under pavement, asphalt, etc, which fills a niche/enviornment that other native ant species up here are slow to fill. That allows them to do an ants job in the ecosystem as a decomposer and a clean up crew to insects and ice cream spills alike.  Also because of their prevalence and tendency to nest in urban/suburban areas, other invasive species like solonopsis invicta not only have to battle the harsh winters which kill most tropical invasive ants they then have to compete with tetomorium and other native ant species which is a big reason tropical invasive ants still haven't been able to get a big foothold up here despite ravaging many lower states and countrys.

 

Also I love your videos Ender Ants and if you could include me that would be crazy!

I agree, but I also think that there are two sides. One I agree that some species can benefit the ecosystem. On the other hand I cannot overlook invasive species that have destroyed local ecosystems like Solenopsis, linepithema and Brachyponera chinensis, just to name a few.

yes absolutely we can't overlook invasive species, I just think that as a community we tend to think of any and all invasive ants as evil and we need to destroy them and remove them. And yes while I understand that most invasive species don't work out like tetromorium immigrans do we can't look at all invasive ants this way and that realistically their just doing what they were biologically programmed to do and that their just ants who don't know any better. We as human beings need to take responsibility for what we have already done while looking at how and why other invasive species have spread, so that more don't do the same, and instead of putting others down we build ourselves up and try and keep from more invasive species spreading.


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#18 Offline Flu1d - Posted June 14 2023 - 3:29 PM

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You are releasing invasive ants into the wild, and nobody "ratted" you out (I assume you do not know what that word means), they just told you that it is extremely irresponsible. It doesn't matter if they are local, releasing an established invasive colony only hurts native ants more. Especially one as destructive as geminata.

It's so weird how you are practically BEGGING for support here, but no one will ever be on your side because it's people like YOU that make the ecosystem worse.

Good job doubling down on being a scumbag.

ayyyoo bro I get it I love ants too, we all know how bad some invasive ants can be. But Damn bro, especially in areas where they are already extremely prevalent, him releasing them isn't going to make that big of a difference. yes ideally we don't want any invasive species but we have them and in areas like that their not going anywhere and while they might get pushed back they're not going to disappear so theirs no point in getting so pissed off at bro for something that overall isn't going to make that much difference in a environment already filled with them.

Him doing what he is doing is exactly why invasive get a foothold in certain areas. It also DOES make a big difference. An established geminata colony being released, regardless of how many are in his area, is a big deal. S. invicta DOMINATE my area, and me adding my established invicta colony to the mix WOULD impact the environment. They would immediately start impacting the native ants in my area and that would in turn impact them in surrounding areas.. less flights, less ants.

It's the same concept.

Simp harder.

#19 Offline ANTdrew - Posted June 14 2023 - 3:44 PM

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I knew this thread would devolve into this sooner or later. Let’s get back on topic.
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#20 Offline Flu1d - Posted June 14 2023 - 4:06 PM

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I agree that using the term "scumbag" is a rude way to go about it, however the topic being discussed is very much on topic with the thread. Two members are talking about releasing invasive species into their ecosystems, one of which is a VERY destructive, aggressive species. He cannot handle keeping them himself, so he wants to dump that responsibility on his local habitat instead of just throwing them in the freezer for a day.

That is wildly irresponsible and I am SHOCKED that this community is not willing to stand up for the environment, and instead wishes to change the subject.

And for the guy stating "well my ants are invasive but they don't negatively effect the environment", just because you don't see it doesn't mean that they don't. They compete with native ants for at least SOME resources, and they multiply like crazy. That, in turn, does impact the local species.

This may just be a hobby to a few people in here, but your decisions impact the entire planet.

I feel like this post is a far more polite, and potentially (hopefully) more educational one. Unfortunately, I have such little faith in humanity that I am almost certain that no one is going to change their mind here.. especially since the people who need the message the most seem to be doubling down on their actions and opinions.
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