34 replies to this topic

[FelixTheAnter]

Buckle up, you're in for a long and wild ride!

You may or may not have seen my original thread in the General Antkeeping Discussion:

https://www.formicul...-my-ant-colony/

I purchased a Pheidole Pallidula colony, and after a few days, I realized...there were two beetles in the colony. And the ants weren't attacking them. In fact, they seemed totally chill with the beetles. I was dumbfounded to the say the least, since we all know much ants love to ruthlessly attack and kill anything that comes near their nests.

When I first discovered them:


Around the same time that I posted that thread, I also posted in an insect ID group asking for an ID on these two strange beetles. At this point I was thinking I'd probably remove the beetles so the colony wouldn't be harmed by them.

An entomologist saw the post, and sent me a message with the name and contact info of another entomologist employed by a well known university. He said I should get in contact with her and tell her what I have.

I did, and she responded right away saying that she was SUPER excited. She was hoping I could send her the colony, but since I live on the other side of the globe, it was too big of a risk. She asked if we could set up a zoom call, and I gladly obliged.

As it turns out, this woman has written literal peer-reviewed papers on these types of beetles. Apparently they are incredibly difficult to obtain, let alone have living in an established colony.

By this point I've long dropped the idea of getting rid of the beetles, since they are clearly something very special. She wanted to know if I'd be interested in collaborating, and sending her any footage/observations I can take of the beetles. The wanna-be biologist in me is absolutely giddy over the idea...so, here we go!

Colony purchased with 2 queens and "100-250 workers"

Second from the bottom in first image




Some decent-ish photos of the beetles:


Here is one moving between the two test tubes that the ants have in their outworld:


So far we know that the beetles are Paussus favieri, and that they generally feed on the brood and workers of the Pheidole Pallidula colony they live in. They can produce vibrations that mimic vibrations made by workers, majors, or the queen. Ants who are being actively fed on by the beetles do not resist in any way, nor do other ants seem bothered by it.

The person who sold me this colony was removing the beetles before selling colonies, thinking they were just pests. The scientists face when I told her this was...filled with horror. lol

The seller will be getting more colonies next week, and we are hoping that it will include some that have beetles. If so, I have a bit of leftover birthday money that I'll use to buy as many of them as I can afford! He may also be able to ship a colony to the scientist herself (still need to look into import laws to the US)...but this is all assuming he gets more colonies that have beetles. Fingers crossed!

Edited by FelixTheAnter, May 28 2023 - 9:05 AM.

[FelixTheAnter]

And now, the first update...it's a big one!

I didn't know if the beetles were a male and female, two females, or two males. I was hoping for either m/f, or two f with at least one fertilized already.

And today, about ten minutes after removing the red foil from their tube so I could watch them for a bit...I saw this!



At first I thought one was just crawling over the other. But...it stayed on top of the other quite deliberately. To say I'm super excited about this is an understatement!

My next step is to make them a proper nest to make stress-free observations easier. I have a Ytong nest started that will hopefully be finished in the next few days.

Stay tuned!

[Ernteameise]

I just love reading about this.
I am very fascinated.
This is one of the most interesting things I saw in a while and looking forward to updates and of course the beetle offspring.

[ColAnt735]

I come bearing names for those beatles, Dang it I mean beetles. Ringo, Paul, John, and George.

[AntsCali098]

I just love reading about this.
I am very fascinated.
This is one of the most interesting things I saw in a while and looking forward to updates and of course the beetle offspring.

I agree, very fascinating. It'll be interesting to see how the beetles will affect the colony, and if they will reproduce. 

PS- does anyone know if these beetles only infiltrate one ant species (Pheidole pallidula) or multiple?

[FelixTheAnter]

I just love reading about this.
I am very fascinated.
This is one of the most interesting things I saw in a while and looking forward to updates and of course the beetle offspring.

I agree, very fascinating. It'll be interesting to see how the beetles will affect the colony, and if they will reproduce.
PS- does anyone know if these beetles only infiltrate one ant species (Pheidole pallidula) or multiple?

As far as I'm aware, the only host for this species of beetle is Pheidole pallidula

I come bearing names for those beatles, Dang it I mean beetles. Ringo, Paul, John, and George.

Love it! Lol

[FelixTheAnter]

I just love reading about this.
I am very fascinated.
This is one of the most interesting things I saw in a while and looking forward to updates and of course the beetle offspring.

Thank you! I'm also super fascinated by it, and hoping I can get their new nest finished either tonight or tomorrow.

I probably won't be around much after that, until the 5th of next month or so, since my mom is flying in to visit. But we'll see!

[FelixTheAnter]

I managed to bang out the new nest last night, and got it all hooked up before bed. Placed the test tubes back in the outworld without their red cover. Some workers were exploring the new nest when I went to bed. This morning around 11am they made the decision to move in, and started frantically grabbing up brood and moving it into the nest.

It's a small Ytong nest, and I opted against painting the outside mainly because I just wanted it to be done & ready for them ASAP. I took AntDrews advice and siliconed the glass to the nest, which was clearly the right thing to do, since there ended up being one spot where minor workers could squeeze under the glass. Even though I sanded it insanely flat with my power sander!



One of the two beetles followed the ants and moved into the new nest right away:



A little difficult to see, but here it is being groomed all over by several workers:



Unfortunately we've lost one of the two queens. I'm not sure when it happened, as I noticed several days ago that I was only seeing one of them. I didn't see her body in the outworld, but it's highly likely that I just didn't notice it when I was cleaning up the large trash pile of black fruit flies.

Thankfully this was a two-queen nest, and the other seems to be doing just fine.

She was very hesitant to leave the old test tube nest. The workers were encouraging her by running up to her and vibrating, and she considered following a couple times, but decided it was too risky.

Queen + the other beetle and some workers in the mostly-vacated nest:



Eventually one of the workers had enough, grabbed her by the face, and dragged her to the new nest lol!



And since I started writing this, the second beetle has left the old test tube and joined the colony in the new nest!

Because this colony has had a ton of stress over the last couple weeks, I'm going to leave the red cover on the nest and not bother them for a while. My mom is flying in to visit soon, and we'll be quite busy traveling. So probably around the 4th, after she leaves, I'll take the red cover off the nest and be able to get some nice photos and videos of these guys!

So far they're mostly crowded in the bottom layer of the nest, but I imagine they'll spread out as they settle in. And I'll take it as a good sign that they moved in so quickly!

[AntsCali098]

Thank you for the detailed update! So interesting to read.

[Ernteameise]

Good luck!

And safe travels!

[madbiologist]

Wow, it's always super cool to see myrmecophiles in captivity! A quick scroll through Google Scholar led me to some articles on what might be exactly this interaction! I found this paper which discusses (among other Paussus) Paussus thomsoni, a myrmecophile of Pheidole pallidula. I'm not sure whether the article is available for free without university access, but it's a very good read. Interestingly, the larvae of P. thomsoni burrow into the walls of the pallidula nests, leaving only a so-called terminal disk exposed to the colony.

[ChenZ]

This is so cool! I've occasionally run into ant colonies with ant crickets when flipping rocks. I don't mind to keep a colony just for myrmecophiles if I can... 

[FelixTheAnter]

Wow, it's always super cool to see myrmecophiles in captivity! A quick scroll through Google Scholar led me to some articles on what might be exactly this interaction! I found this paper which discusses (among other Paussus) Paussus thomsoni, a myrmecophile of Pheidole pallidula. I'm not sure whether the article is available for free without university access, but it's a very good read. Interestingly, the larvae of P. thomsoni burrow into the walls of the pallidula nests, leaving only a so-called terminal disk exposed to the colony.

The scientist I'm talking to may or may not be one of the authors of that paper!

This is so cool! I've occasionally run into ant colonies with ant crickets when flipping rocks. I don't mind to keep a colony just for myrmecophiles if I can... 

Oh, lucky you!! Have you collected any of them?

[FelixTheAnter]

Another unexpected turn of events for this colony (two of them, actually)

 

The ants seem very happy in their new nest, the brood pile is growing by the day. I added a heating cable under the nest and they immediately flocked to it, though it's caused some condensation inside the glass, which the ants then track some dirt onto. Makes it a bit hard to see inside. I moved the cable to the back side of the nest, hopefully that will help a bit.

It turns out...there are mites in the colony. They seem to want to grab onto the ants, but they look a lot like grain/detrivorous mites. There's a good chance they or their eggs came from my fruit fly colony. I'll be keeping a close eye on them to make sure they aren't growing in numbers or hurting the ants.

And...apparently the colony is producing two queen alates! I saw these two strange balls in the nest. After some googling, other people have had these & they turned out to be the larvae of future queens. Some small colonies (like mine) end up just killing/eating them. We'll see what happens.

No sign of beetle larvae yet, but it hasn't been that long. Both are still alive and well!

 

The colony shows very minimal interest in sugar water, but I think it's because they are using the majors as repletes. Most of the majors are absolutely bursting at the seams, as you can see below. They are absolutely ravenous for protein.

 

Broke out my camera for some better photos. Hopefully can get better ones of inside the nest once the glass clears up a bit.

 

Breaking down a fly in the outworld:

 

Beetle being groomed by ants:

 

Workers guarding & one worker feeding the two queen larvae. You can see a mite on one of the workers:

 

Another angle:

 

Major and minor, both with very full gasters:

[ChenZ]

I was taking an Entomology class so I collected one for my specimen. They are often host specific and need plenty of brood for food, probably need to collect the whole colony in order to keep them...

 

Wow, it's always super cool to see myrmecophiles in captivity! A quick scroll through Google Scholar led me to some articles on what might be exactly this interaction! I found this paper which discusses (among other Paussus) Paussus thomsoni, a myrmecophile of Pheidole pallidula. I'm not sure whether the article is available for free without university access, but it's a very good read. Interestingly, the larvae of P. thomsoni burrow into the walls of the pallidula nests, leaving only a so-called terminal disk exposed to the colony.

The scientist I'm talking to may or may not be one of the authors of that paper!

This is so cool! I've occasionally run into ant colonies with ant crickets when flipping rocks. I don't mind to keep a colony just for myrmecophiles if I can... 

Oh, lucky you!! Have you collected any of them?

 

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

 

 I added a heating cable under the nest and they immediately flocked to it, though it's caused some condensation inside the glass, which the ants then track some dirt onto. Makes it a bit hard to see inside. I moved the cable to the back side of the nest, hopefully that will help a bit.

 

 

on condensation:
this will happen when either condition is met:

 

1: supersaturation of huimmididty
2: great enough temperature differential between glass temperature and internal nest temperature.


To prevent 1
try to place heat sources not too close to water sources. This can cause the evaporation rates to be too high relative to the dispensation rate and winds up supersaturating the space with water vapor which simply must condense onto whatever surfaces it can. To try and off set this issue if heat cannot be better placed, you can add vents to the nest to increase the dissipation rate. If placed farther away form the water sources this will help create a humidity gradient so the ants can place eggs/larvae/pupae/themselves, each to their optimal conditions.

to prevent 2
heat the glass directly. It does not need a lot but if the glass is just warm enough and the humidity is not supersaturated, then no condensation will occur even under high humidity situations. And of course if ambient is warm enough then the glass will be too and only supersaturation will cause condensation to occur.


image of heat applied to glass.
The cable touches the left side wall and bottom of the nest to provide heat opposite side form the water tower. Along the top here it is only just in contact with the magnet held in place by tension. If i had a shot of this on the edge you could see the tiny air gap between the cable and the glass. The amount of heat that gets to the glass through the magnet and air gap, is all it takes to keep condensation from forming anywhere on the glass. Ambient matters so how much glass contact you need is relative to how cold the room is on average.

 

 

on mites:
I have been told that a 3 second  boiling will kill off any mites and mite eggs present on a feeder insect. Mine get one or two a week (depending on size) and so far no issues(not long 16 weeks). I probably do 4-5 seconds as i make sure to dunk/swish it around in the boiling water for good measure.

Edited by Full_Frontal_Yeti, May 14 2023 - 7:23 AM.

[madbiologist]

Are you sure those are actually alate larvae? I've never seen such round larvae before in an ant species...

[FelixTheAnter]

Are you sure those are actually alate larvae? I've never seen such round larvae before in an ant species...

 

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure. I had really hoped they were beetle larvae, but then I found this:
http://www.criarhorm...-pallidula-iii/

And this:
https://www.formicul...a-colony/page-4

I don't see them now, I think the colony may have eaten them. Either that or they're hidden somewhere in the massive piles of brood. Will post some updated photos!

 

 

 

 I added a heating cable under the nest and they immediately flocked to it, though it's caused some condensation inside the glass, which the ants then track some dirt onto. Makes it a bit hard to see inside. I moved the cable to the back side of the nest, hopefully that will help a bit.

 

 

on condensation:
this will happen when either condition is met:

 

1: supersaturation of huimmididty
2: great enough temperature differential between glass temperature and internal nest temperature.


To prevent 1
try to place heat sources not too close to water sources. This can cause the evaporation rates to be too high relative to the dispensation rate and winds up supersaturating the space with water vapor which simply must condense onto whatever surfaces it can. To try and off set this issue if heat cannot be better placed, you can add vents to the nest to increase the dissipation rate. If placed farther away form the water sources this will help create a humidity gradient so the ants can place eggs/larvae/pupae/themselves, each to their optimal conditions.

to prevent 2
heat the glass directly. It does not need a lot but if the glass is just warm enough and the humidity is not supersaturated, then no condensation will occur even under high humidity situations. And of course if ambient is warm enough then the glass will be too and only supersaturation will cause condensation to occur.


image of heat applied to glass.
The cable touches the left side wall and bottom of the nest to provide heat opposite side form the water tower. Along the top here it is only just in contact with the magnet held in place by tension. If i had a shot of this on the edge you could see the tiny air gap between the cable and the glass. The amount of heat that gets to the glass through the magnet and air gap, is all it takes to keep condensation from forming anywhere on the glass. Ambient matters so how much glass contact you need is relative to how cold the room is on average.

 

 

on mites:
I have been told that a 3 second  boiling will kill off any mites and mite eggs present on a feeder insect. Mine get one or two a week (depending on size) and so far no issues(not long 16 weeks). I probably do 4-5 seconds as i make sure to dunk/swish it around in the boiling water for good measure.

 

Thank you for this! Unfortunately method one isn't really possible, the ants are so tiny that I had no choice but to silicone the glass to the nest. Apparently it was a good decision, because despite how flat I sanded it the nest, they still managed to reach the silicone in a couple spots. But method two works! I've taped the heat cable against the glass, and near the cable the glass has cleared. They also really love the heat cable and are piling their brood by it. I need to change how this cable is attached to another nest as well, so I think I'll probably end up putting the cable across more of the glass for them.

[FelixTheAnter]

Photos from yesterday! The amount of brood this colony has is absolutely insane. No shortage of food for the beetles, that's for sure. I'm also starting to see pupae!

 

Bottom chamber with the queen:

 

Upper chamber with more brood:

 

Some closeups of those same brood piles:

 

 

And a little beetle taking a stroll through the nest



They're currently all clustered near where I've taped the heat cable to the front of the glass, so I'm planning on covering a bit more of the nest with it. Funny enough, my Lasius Niger vacate any area that this heat cable is touching the front of the glass, but these Pheidole have the opposite reaction. They seem to absolutely love the heat...and this heating cable gets REALLY warm, almost uncomfortable to touch. Apparently they think it's great though, so...whatever makes them happy.

[Ernteameise]

I really admire this colony.

You have been so lucky with this.

And they appear to develop nicely.

Thank you for sharing.