33 replies to this topic

[FelixTheAnter]

I have a new pheidole pallidula colony, somewhere around 100-250 workers. I just set them up in a new habitat with a few pieces of wood + sand. Before putting in the wood I ran it under scalding hot water + scrubbed it. But I didn't notice these beetles in the colony before, so maybe they still somehow hitchhiked deeper inside the wood or the sand?

What are they and how do I get rid of them? You can see two of them in the middle of this photo



EDIT: I talked to the seller and apparently they probably came with the colony. He's had them before and removed them from colonies, but I can see how they were overlooked. I didn't even see them until today, and I've been obsessively watching these guys for the last few days.

Some people have said you can leave the beetles and they'll coexist with the colony. How much damage can they realistically do? It's a 2 queen colony. If I leave them, could they kill a queen? Will they eventually overpopulate and kill the colony? Or will they not be a problem? I honestly think they're quite cool, but I don't want them taking over/hurting the colony.

Edited by FelixTheAnter, April 15 2023 - 1:30 AM.

[ANTdrew]

That’s wild! It must be some sort of myrmecophilous species that is able to infiltrate an ant colony by mimicking their scents and pheromones. Some myrmecophiles also offer appeasement chemicals that calm ants down once they start to attack the invader. While they are quite fascinating, those beetles are probably there to steal eggs and larvae, so they will weaken your colony over time. It’s probably best to remove them.

[Ernteameise]

I have to say I find these myrmecophilus insects (beetles and butterflies) utterly fascinating.

Sadly, in Germany, many of the species doing it are endangered.

I was actually temped to start a Myrmica rubra colony just to see their interaction with the parasitic butterflies, but of course I do not want to risk harming an endangered species.

Edited by Ernteameise, April 15 2023 - 2:25 AM.

[FelixTheAnter]

Right?! I even searched the forum for beetle/beetle parasite and found no results with anything like this. (Though I seem to be exceptionally bad at using the forum search)

If anyone in Europe wants to send me a Pheidole Pallidula colony to sacrifice, I'll put the beetles with them and keep a journal of what happens! Hahaha

Times like this I wish I just had €50 to throw away so I could buy a big colony and give beetles to them, it would be so interesting to see what happens over time. I've heard of parasites that live undetected in ant colonies, but never seen it before. It's really fascinating!

Edited by FelixTheAnter, April 15 2023 - 2:29 AM.

[ANTdrew]

I just finished reading the chapter on this in Wilson’s The Ants! One time I tried adding a myrmecophile cricket ti my Crematogaster colony, but I think it just got eaten.

[FelixTheAnter]

I just finished reading the chapter on this in Wilson’s The Ants! One time I tried adding a myrmecophile cricket ti my Crematogaster colony, but I think it just got eaten.

I guess they can't all be successful, otherwise ants wouldn't stand a chance lol

[ConcordAntman]

Felix, you’ve got me curious. What’s the species of beetle?!?

[FelixTheAnter]

I'm not sure. From my (brief) research it seems like there's often only one species that specializes in a species of ant, but I didn't get any further than that. And not sure if it's always the case. The more I look into it, the more fascinated I am & not wanting to remove them lol! But also I don't want to risk my Pheidole Pallidula colony dying, I just dropped some € on them and find them super fascinating lol

[ANTdrew]

I don’t think they would die. Any good parasite will only weaken the host. Also, many beetles can live with various ant species, so that doesn’t really help narrow it down.

[FelixTheAnter]

Someone please make me stop looking at backup Pheidole Pallidula colonies on the local market place. I can't afford this lol

I don’t think they would die. Any good parasite will only weaken the host. Also, many beetles can live with various ant species, so that doesn’t really help narrow it down.

I'm going to see if I can get an ID for these guys, I'm a part of a few insect ID groups that may know

Edited by FelixTheAnter, April 15 2023 - 2:57 AM.

[Ernteameise]

This is fascinating.

I am very curious as to what you find out and what you decide in the end.

[ANTdrew]

Felix, this is your bank account: STOP!

[FelixTheAnter]

Felix, this is your bank account: STOP!

Hmm...sounds about right. We've got a 14 year old Border Collie who is costing us about €300/month just in medication right now. My bank account is screaming non-stop LOL

This is fascinating.
I am very curious as to what you find out and what you decide in the end.

I'm posting in some bug ID groups now, I'll definitely update as soon as I know anything! Might also try to get some better photos/video later

[FelixTheAnter]

It looks like they could be Paussus favieri. I'm going to get some better photos of them.

Here's the Paussus favieri Wikipedia summary:

These beetles, along with others in the subfamily Paussinae, are known as flanged bombardier beetles due to their ability to explosively discharge benzoquinones, chemical irritants, at temperatures between 55° and 100°C. A flange on their elytra assists in directing the chemicals toward the front of their bodies.

All species of this genus are obligate myrmecophiles, living symbiotically in ant nests. The beetles release chemicals the ants find rewarding, and in return receive protection for themselves and their larvae. The beetles also gain a source of food in the relationship -- the ants.

Female Paussus lay their eggs in ant nests. The larvea develop in the nest and are apparently fed by the ants. Adult Paussus feed at will by piercing and holding an ant with their mandibles and feeding by suction. Ants that were observed being preyed upon did not react aggressively, and remained near the beetle after being released (until dying a short time later).

Some species of Paussus are fully integrated into ant colonies, and are treated as valued guests by the ants. Worker ants groom the beetles and actively lick or palpate exposed regions of the beetle’s body, particularly those rich in the chemicals attractive to the ants. Worker ants sometimes grasp adult Paussus by their antennae and legs to transport them to new nests.

Observations of Paussus favieri with its host ants Pheidole pallidula revealed the beetle interacting directly with the queen in her chamber, rubbing against the queen’s body, with no aggressive behaviour from the queen or the workers. Both the beetle and the queen ant stridulate back and forth during this interaction. In fact, it appears that acoustic communication and deception play an important role in the integration of these beetles into the ant society.


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I find it interesting that it says it's a symbiotic relationship, and not a parasitic one. Besides finding the chemicals rewarding, I don't see what benefit the ants receive from it.

Edited by FelixTheAnter, April 15 2023 - 3:46 AM.

[Daniel]

This is one of the coolest things I've seen on here in a while. I would definitely not get rid of the beetles. Good luck with this colony and please keep us updated!

[Daniel]

I find it interesting that it says it's a symbiotic relationship, and not a parasitic one. Besides finding the chemicals rewarding, I don't see what benefit the ants receive from it.

Parasitism is a form of symbiosis, along with commensalism, mutualism, and other forms. If the ant colony receives some level of protection from the beetles and the beetles receive food and shelter from the ants, this would be an example of mutualism. If the ants truly do not benefit from the beetles' presence, then it would be commensalism or even parasitism.

Edited by Daniel, April 15 2023 - 6:49 AM.

[Manitobant]

If i were you i would keep them in the colony rather than trying to get rid of them. Myrmecophiles aren’t something you see every day and considering they only kill workers they shouldn’t do too much damage (especially since workers die pretty much every day of natural causes anyways)

Edited by Manitobant, April 15 2023 - 7:33 AM.

[gcsnelling]

Try posting them to Inaturalist.

[Locness]

Would love to see video footage of the beetles mingling with the ants, and of course, eating them...

[ANTS_KL]

I just finished reading the chapter on this in Wilson’s The Ants! One time I tried adding a myrmecophile cricket to my Crematogaster colony, but I think it just got eaten.

The issue with myrmecophilous crickets, they are extremely specific to the species of ant they coexist with. Also, a ton of these cricket species will inherit the scent of the ant colony they reside in, so the only way they can move to a different colony is during the stage in their life when they actively search for a host nest to live in for the rest of their days.