100 replies to this topic

[MinigunL5]

I agree with many of the points here, but I want to add some of my personal thoughts, mainly about Discord. I find Discord preferable to FC because of its fast pace and constant conversation. It is much easier to make a quick remark on Discord than write out a whole paragraph for FC. So it makes sense that people (especially younger people) will prefer this more fast-paced platform. Additionally, while it is nice to have informational guides on FC and it's true that it's easier to store these guides on FC than Discord, I prefer to get my ant info from Discord. When I was a beginner, I could simply ask a question in the appropriate channel and often get multiple answers. Sometimes I would be provided multiple points of view and different experiences which were extremally helpful. Though, on some occasions my questions would be ignored or covered up by others so it is not without faults. Another thing about Discord is that it allows for much closer connections than FC due to it being a more fast paced constant conversation. I personally have made many a friends with other ant-keepers through Discord. Nowadays I don't use Discord or FC much due to time constraints and lack of interest. But I think they are both great platforms that each have their own place in ant-keeping. And while FC does seem to be on a small decline, I am sure that it will continue on well enough as long as the hobby continues to grow and it continues to be moderated. 

 

P.S. If you haven't tried Discord, I suggest that you give it a shot. It's definitely not for everyone but you might be surprised by how useful the platform can be, especially for niche hobbies like ant-keeping.

[TacticalHandleGaming]

I agree with many of the points here, but I want to add some of my personal thoughts, mainly about Discord. I find Discord preferable to FC because of its fast pace and constant conversation. It is much easier to make a quick remark on Discord than write out a whole paragraph for FC. So it makes sense that people (especially younger people) will prefer this more fast-paced platform. Additionally, while it is nice to have informational guides on FC and it's true that it's easier to store these guides on FC than Discord, I prefer to get my ant info from Discord. When I was a beginner, I could simply ask a question in the appropriate channel and often get multiple answers. Sometimes I would be provided multiple points of view and different experiences which were extremally helpful. Though, on some occasions my questions would be ignored or covered up by others so it is not without faults. Another thing about Discord is that it allows for much closer connections than FC due to it being a more fast paced constant conversation. I personally have made many a friends with other ant-keepers through Discord. Nowadays I don't use Discord or FC much due to time constraints and lack of interest. But I think they are both great platforms that each have their own place in ant-keeping. And while FC does seem to be on a small decline, I am sure that it will continue on well enough as long as the hobby continues to grow and it continues to be moderated. 

 

P.S. If you haven't tried Discord, I suggest that you give it a shot. It's definitely not for everyone but you might be surprised by how useful the platform can be, especially for niche hobbies like ant-keeping.

 

See, this is exactly why I dislike discord. It's not great for storing information. It's more like an annoying sounding board with a bunch of bad information from 12 year olds. 

[Chickalo]

I read the first page and skimmed the rest, but I guess I'll give my food for thought.

 

First of all, the Discord vs Formiculture.

 

Discord, like many people said, is a faster paced platform.  When compared, Formiculture is like a town message board- people can post messages and maybe see some responses about it.  It takes longer but it's more professional, longer messages, etc.  If Formiculture is a message board then Discord is like the town center, lots of people talking at once, more casual.  Obviously, in newer years the town message board became less popular, buildings with flashier signs full of people are more likely to attract people than the wooden post with posts of paragraphs.  Overall, Discord is just an easier way to connect with people and ask simple questions than Formiculture.  Over the years, I've made more close friends on Discord than on here- but that's to be expected.  On here, there's a certain format to go by, there's proper grammar- it's more professional.  On Discord, however, it feels more casual, more like talking with close friends.  Alongside that, there's more leeway on Discord to talk about stupid/unrelated things than there is here, which is another appeal to Discord- being able to connect through other things than ants.

 

Of course, with that being said, there are things that Formiculture can do that Discord can't.  For instance, Formiculture is much better for posting journals.  You can do it on Discord, of course, but you also have a shorter text limit, people might flood out your comments, etc.  Formiculture is also better for posting research and discoveries, as discussing on that.  On Discord, I can't post a single picture of local ant without someone calling me out for having less interesting northern species.

 

Now, that being said, another thing is that there's kind of this awkward transition between ant journals and AntsCanada.  Sure, we have content like essays of how to keep species, or entertaining drama on YouTube, but there's a relative inability to keep up with what's popular, especially in a day and age when 30 second videos on TikTok are what bring things to be popular.  There's only so much you can squeeze into such a small increment of time, and alongside that you have to be funny?  On YouTube it would've been a doable feat, but due to how algorithm on things like TikTok work it's just not as favorable for the attention span of people today.  The hard truth is that scientific facts and a TikTok format just don't fit well together.  I'm sure if longer videos ever come back into popularity maybe ants could rise again, but until then we're just stuck in this awkward in between.  It also doesn't help that the US Government doesn't care about ants, causing laws that no effort was put into which often causes a topic of debate.

 

So yeah.  Sorry that it's a long read.

 

My condolences to those who can no longer enjoy the forum like they used to, and my best wishes to the community.

 

In Short:  The format of Formiculture isn't friendly to those of us with shorter attention spans, which I think is the root of the spammy messages problem.  Likewise, the format of Discord isn't friendly to those of us who want to show long documented posts.

Edited by Chickalo, January 27 2023 - 5:30 PM.

[Leo]

Been a member since 2016, and an insect keeper since 2010, I think its safe to say that many of the veteran keepers with high quality journals and equipment have simply lost interest and moved on or something of the sort. A few examples of this would be: CoolCoolJ, CrazyLegs, Connectimyrmex, and the list goes on.

That is not to say that new members and journals can't have the same quality as before, but when I first joined, there were at least a dozen, active, long-lasting, detailed journals and far more active and experienced members offering great advice + interactions, which just made this place a lot more enjoyable to stay. Unfortunately, this just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. This, paired with the emergence of faster-paced discord servers which appeal more to the younger (and newer) ant keepers means that formiculture is no longer the "main hub" of ant keeping that it once seemingly was. Regardless, this place holds a special place in my heart, and I do hope to see it back in its prime someday.

 

Every time I check in I also get a blast of nostalgia

[JustabirdfromFlorida]

I am a kid here who is twelve but kids that make ridiculous posts for no reason should be banned until they are older

And one more thing about this prenny guy. A lot on new members on the forum are discouraged because when they join they are called prenny especially Floridians this happened to me and I almost left the forum but some people like United Ants helped me and encouraged me to stay. All I want to say is we should stop saying everyone is a prenny until they actually try to sell ants.

[Ernteameise]

"tries to google "prenny" no success, no native speaker, so if someone calls me a prenny I would probably take it as a compliment"

 

Anyways, my 2 cents-

I am a real surviving internet dinosaur (and I am allowed to be, since I have crossed the 40 year age mark).

I cannot handle or type on mobile devices. I just cannot, I miss the dexterity.

I need to type slowly on my keyboard.

I am not a big fan of Discord, and while I enjoy posts on facebook and Reddit, it just feels so random and unorganized.

 

I like slow media like forums, I have been active in different (now dead) forums for 25 years now.

I have seen forums rise and fall, I once was a member of a thriving bird keeping forum where we had a tightly knit community and even had online parties (with booze) on the weekend where we met and chatted and had fun. The forum has died. I am still friends with my bird friends on Facebook.

So yeah, forums rise and fall, people move on, people lose interest or life circumstances change.

I am a very good example:

I owned 3 parrots, but then I had a hard time finding a job as a scientist, I had to move countries (I left my birds with a friend who is ecology lecturer at a university), and now I am back in Germany in a small flat where pet keeping is NOT allowed.

So no birds, no cats, no dogs, no rabbits.

Only ornamental animals are allowed, like my betta fish, my cherry shrimp and now I got the ants (which, I will be totally honest, if my landlady sees she will throw a medium sized fit- however, law is on my side and ants are purely ornamental and not "pets").

 

So basically, I was forced by life circumstances to shift my interest from my beloved birds back to my youth interest of keeping ants.

I also have a very demanding full time job, so I cannot frequent internet forums as much as I used to.

So I am just in general less active online.

 

Things like that happen. Life happens.

 

However, for me coming back to ant keeping after 30 years, I am amazed and stunned how much it has changed, how much more information there is, how many more or less active communities and online groups there are. I had nothing like that 30 years ago. I only had a few books and had to order "The Ants" via the university bookstore and then wait a couple of weeks for the book to arrive! All people around me, including my class-mates and even the teachers at school were mocking me and I just retreated into my own little bubble.

And man, did I show them by winning the science competition WITHOUT any help of those teachers.

Oh, and I have to add- the university I am talking about is the Biological Faculty in Wuerzburg!!! I was able to sneak away and skip school and sneak into the lectures of one of my heroes, Bert Hölldobler (the co-author of "The Ants") and even annoyed the ant scientists and had them show me all the university colonies.

My school teachers might not have been interested in my ant studies, but the ant scientists were happy about my enthusiasm. I bet I learned more this way than actually going to class.

 

Now, for me coming back, I feel like in wonderland. There even recently some awesome graphical popular science books about ants came out, which I immediately bought and I am just in love with the photographs (just look at "Ants Workers of the World" !!).

I am also very happy I found this forum and can exchange thoughts with even a few active members. Since I am used to NOT A SINGLE interested person in my school days, this is basically a fun fair here. And yes, reactions and answers are slow, but I work all day, and if I check here at night the next day, that is my kind of speed, since when at work, I am not able to do internet for fun.

 

Yes, I am aware that internet dinosaurs like me are dying out. Or that we have to move on.

But to stay with my bird interest- dinosaurs in real life actually never died out. They just grew feathers and flew away.

Just like some wasps lost their wings and became the ants we see today.

In some form or another, communities like this will endure and evolve into something new or different. It does not necessarily have to be better, though.

 

EDIT-

I also would like to add, I also like to look into the bees and other inverts subforums on here.

One of my colleagues is a bee keeper.

My granddad was a bee keeper.

I like other insects too.

Would be a waste to lose it.

Edited by Ernteameise, April 4 2023 - 11:25 AM.

[Manitobant]

"tries to google "prenny" no success, no native speaker, so if someone calls me a prenny I would probably take it as a compliment"
 
Anyways, my 2 cents-
I am a real surviving internet dinosaur (and I am allowed to be, since I have crossed the 40 year age mark).
I cannot handle or type on mobile devices. I just cannot, I miss the dexterity.
I need to type slowly on my keyboard.
I am not a big fan of Discord, and while I enjoy posts on facebook and Reddit, it just feels so random and unorganized.
 
I like slow media like forums, I have been active in different (now dead) forums for 25 years now.
I have seen forums rise and fall, I once was a member of a thriving bird keeping forum where we had a tightly knit community and even had online parties (with booze) on the weekend where we met and chatted and had fun. The forum has died. I am still friends with my bird friends on Facebook.
So yeah, forums rise and fall, people move on, people lose interest or life circumstances change.
I am a very good example:
I owned 3 parrots, but then I had a hard time finding a job as a scientist, I had to move countries (I left my birds with a friend who is ecology lecturer at a university), and now I am back in Germany in a small flat where pet keeping is NOT allowed.
So no birds, no cats, no dogs, no rabbits.
Only ornamental animals are allowed, like my betta fish, my cherry shrimp and now I got the ants (which, I will be totally honest, if my landlady sees she will throw a medium sized fit- however, law is on my side and ants are purely ornamental and not "pets").
 
So basically, I was forced by life circumstances to shift my interest from my beloved birds back to my youth interest of keeping ants.
I also have a very demanding full time job, so I cannot frequent internet forums as much as I used to.
So I am just in general less active online.
 
Things like that happen. Life happens.
 
However, for me coming back to ant keeping after 30 years, I am amazed and stunned how much it has changed, how much more information there is, how many more or less active communities and online groups there are. I had nothing like that 30 years ago. I only had a few books and had to order "The Ants" via the university bookstore and then wait a couple of weeks for the book to arrive! All people around me, including my class-mates and even the teachers at school were mocking me and I just retreated into my own little bubble.
And man, did I show them by winning the science competition WITHOUT any help of those teachers.
Oh, and I have to add- the university I am talking about is the Biological Faculty in Wuerzburg!!! I was able to sneak away and skip school and sneak into the lectures of one of my heroes, Bert Hölldobler (the co-author of "The Ants") and even annoyed the ant scientists and had them show me all the university colonies.
My school teachers might not have been interested in my ant studies, but the ant scientists were happy about my enthusiasm. I bet I learned more this way than actually going to class.
 
Now, for me coming back, I feel like in wonderland. There even recently some awesome graphical popular science books about ants came out, which I immediately bought and I am just in love with the photographs (just look at "Ants Workers of the World" !!).
I am also very happy I found this forum and can exchange thoughts with even a few active members. Since I am used to NOT A SINGLE interested person in my school days, this is basically a fun fair here. And yes, reactions and answers are slow, but I work all day, and if I check here at night the next day, that is my kind of speed, since when at work, I am not able to do internet for fun.
 
Yes, I am aware that internet dinosaurs like me are dying out. Or that we have to move on.
But to stay with my bird interest- dinosaurs in real life actually never died out. They just grew feathers and flew away.
Just like some wasps lost their wings and became the ants we see today.
In some form or another, communities like this will endure and evolve into something new or different. It does not necessarily have to be better, though.
 
EDIT-
I also would like to add, I also like to look into the bees and other inverts subforums on here.
One of my colleagues is a bee keeper.
My granddad was a bee keeper.
I like other insects too.
Would be a waste to lose it.

Nobody is gonna call you Preny as you’re from Germany, not Florida. He isn’t that smart lmao

[Locness]

I actually like Facebook groups for the swift upload of pics and videos. There's a constant stream of content too. I go to formiculture for the journals, pinned info, and marketplace. 

[Hothkinstroy]

Welp, since this post isn't dead and is clearly not dying anytime soon. Here's my opinion on Discord vs Formiculture.

 

Like multiple people have already stated, Discord is relatively faster and more efficient (it's also a popular option for younger people like Minigun said). However, Discord isn't all sunshine and flowers. It's a very hit or miss type of thing. Sometimes your question will be ignored by ongoing conversations, sometimes your question won't be seen, and sometimes your question is answered by someone who has no idea what they're talking about (don't give advice on species you haven't kept! If you still want to be helpful though send a video of someone who has kept the species explaining it!) Although it is faster, the responses aren't as detailed and sometimes lack quality.

 

As for Formiculture, its a very Quality > Quantity type thing. Responses can take hours or sometimes even days depending on how complex your question is, however, the responses are usually by experts in the hobby or people who have firsthand experience in the context of your question. You get more detailed responses clearly answering your question, and you can get multiple opinions, however, if your question needs an IMMEDIATE response, like its an emergency, then Formiculture isn't a very good option. It's a laid back platform and people aren't always on 24/7 to answer your question.

 

In conclusion, Formiculture is Quality > Quantity, meanwhile Discord is Quality < Quantity. Although this isn't 100% accurate, it still generally applies.

[OhNoNotAgain]

FC's advantage is it can easily and clearly present information that STAYS THERE and doesn't scroll away like it does on Facebook or Discord. For example, I often post the link to the beginner's antkeeping guide (the pinned one) on Facebook, because it's still one of the best introductions online.

 

So my thought is, why not expand on the strength of the forum format? Could we get more antkeeping guides for individual species? Also get people to post good quality photo examples within the careguides so others can ID their species better? (And delete all comments in those threads, or maybe have two threads: "Veromessor pergandei antkeeping & ID guide" "Veromessor pergandei guide discussion.") If we have really good, quality information for keeping various ant species that is organized and easy to navigate, it might help play into FC's strengths and draw traffic - if for no other reason that it's stable and easy to find.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, June 30 2023 - 11:53 AM.

[OhNoNotAgain]

Something else that MIGHT be useful is a regional guide, though it might be controversial due to it needing a new subforum. When I was a new antkeeper (read: coming back into antkeeping after 30+ years) I had zero ZERO clue what ants were available in my state. When I was new - and new people come by on Facebook all the time - a by-state/by-region listing of common ants AND a short description of them AS PETS would have been very helpful (because most of us have noticed pest control websites are tolerable for IDing the most common species, but are terrible for pet advice). To be honest, one of the things that helped most were sales posts on this forum, because people would post photos AND descriptions ("beginner level, medium to large, has majors, needs diapause, not dangerous" or "beginner level, tiny and escapes easily, no majors, needs diapause, nasty sting so be careful"). As a new keeper I would have loved this information in a consolidated section for my state ... though yeah, since my state is California, it might've been as long as Drew's sales page or longer. But even cribbing info from sales pages on a state-by-state or region-by-region basis would've been something.

 

So new person posts on FB/discord "I'm a noob" and is pointed to the FC state/region listing to find likely ants in their area, then can go to the careguide section for specific careguide information.

Or new person posts on FB with "what is this? is this a queen?", then can go straight to the careguide section once FB people give them an ID.

 

Okay that's my $0.02 remembering what it was like to be an utter n00b.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, June 30 2023 - 12:40 PM.

[Serafine]

FC's advantage is it can easily and clearly present information that STAYS THERE and doesn't scroll away like it does on Facebook or Discord. For example, I often post the link to the beginner's antkeeping guide (the pinned one) on Facebook, because it's still one of the best introductions online.

 

So my thought is, why not expand on the strength of the forum format? Could we get more antkeeping guides for individual species? Also get people to post good quality photo examples within the careguides so others can ID their species better? (And delete all comments in those threads, or maybe have two threads: "Veromessor pergandei antkeeping & ID guide" "Veromessor pergandei guide discussion.") If we have really good, quality information for keeping various ant species that is organized and easy to navigate, it might help play into FC's strengths and draw traffic - if for no other reason that it's stable and easy to find.

Yeah, i've been saying that for years.

The problem with most forums is they have the information but the admins and moderators don't give a crap about curating it, so it just gets lost. At that point you may as well just use a chat server.

 

Generally the medium "forum" isn't the problem, it's the inability of their onwers and staff to adapt to the new environment where forums lost their function as community builders to other faster-paced and more specialized social media platforms and have to act more as providers for static information and the discussions surrounding it.

 

And the problem with journals in particular isn't new. The good ones have been steadily drowned out by the ones without any useful information or even pictures.

I suggested a gallery/showcase journal section in like 2018, not to denounce bad journals but to give examples of how to do good journals, so more and more can be elevated into that section and the ratio of bad journals goes down, for an overall better user experience.

 

Which brings us back to the forementioned inability of forums to adapt or do anything to become more attractive.

Most forums just act as if it's still 2014, so it's not a big surprised they're all dying out.

 

It's a bit like malls and city center retailers screaming "oh god, online shops are killing us" without doing ANYTHING to become more attractive to their potential customer base.

Edited by Serafine, June 30 2023 - 1:03 PM.

[futurebird]

The main reason I don't post here more often is because I have to first go to imgur to post images. Then, there is much less response than I get on tumblr or the fediverse(Mastodon). 

Reddit is also dying out at the moment and a lot of the ant people from reddit are now on tumblr. Discord is great, but so active I don't have the time to keep up. 

I think it would help to condense the number of forums here. Take up a collection (I'm willing to contribute $$) so that people can upload more images before we "run out" 

[OhNoNotAgain]

Yeah the image problem is big. I used to run a forum or two myself, and had the images linked from offsite. Of course, by now those image hosting services have mainly gone belly-up. It was also royally annoying to have to post images on a third party site etc.. I also would like a larger cap on total image uploads. It's certainly been something I've been watching to avoid getting anywhere close to maxing out.

 

Since I am complaining about ant caresheets, I was wondering if I should go ahead and make one, but is Drew actively reviewing them and posting them, or is anyone else?

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, July 1 2023 - 4:56 PM.

[Yourbasicantkeeper]

Everyone should be grateful to the people that posted on this topic. They put so much hard work and effort into writing those paragraphs, and they really want to help this forum out.

[ANTdrew]

The forum has been quite active in the past few weeks. I declare it alive and well.

[antsriondel]

The forum has been quite active in the past few weeks. I declare it alive and well.

Yes!

[OhNoNotAgain]

The forum has been quite active in the past few weeks. I declare it alive and well.

ANTdrew are you a mod? Can you tell me anything about writing caresheets? Or do you have any ideas for a section where somehow we can collaborate on a caresheet? There are SO many species lacking caresheets or any guides, and slogging through journals is kinda hard work.

[ANTdrew]

I am a mod, but Dspdrew has final word on care sheets. If you type one up, send it to him, and he can post it.

[OhNoNotAgain]

I am a mod, but Dspdrew has final word on care sheets. If you type one up, send it to him, and he can post it.

I put my money where my mouth is and wrote up a proposed caresheet for Veromessor pergandei. I also put a copy in my journal.

Now I will have to review my other colonies and see what else I might feel confident enough to write about. It's funny how making mistakes and fixing them actually qualifies one to write better care guides.

P.S. I do dread all the people piling on and yelling, "You're doing it wrong!" I wrote on FB about lightly boiling frozen insects (stops crickets turning black and kills stuff) and got "corrected" by someone saying uncooked is best. Well YEAH it's more natural and yeah probably better, but I'm DONE with hitchhiker grain mites and I don't want to risk parasites.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, July 3 2023 - 8:20 AM.