198 replies to this topic

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

Some info on the Ants and their setup.

I have found they are disturbed by vibrations and loud noises that i can do little about in our place.
It's tiny, only about 420 sq ft or so. And a 2nd floor garage duplex. In an older building.

The whole place shakes/vibrates for very little. A large truck/boom'n contraption, can vibrate the place and and set them off.

Sometimes rolling my office chair a bit can be enough vibration to set them off.
If i sneeze suddenly (i have famously loud sneezes) without a chance to cover/move away from them, it will set them off.
This space also acts a ;living room entertainment location. The movie/TV is never that loud to set them off, but my loud laughing is sometimes.

 

I can open and close the door on the cabinet they sit atop, and maybe about 40% of the time the vibration will set them off.

Any opening of the enclosures will of course set them off, though the outworld much less so than the outnest, as i now call it.

If the outworld is disturbed odds are it is contained to the outworld, while in nest/outnest ants remain clam. But if the outnest is disturbed this will spread to the nest proper, but not the outworld, where those ants will remain calm.

 

In the morning when the lights are first turned on they clearly get disturbed (in the outnest space), but they are not 'set off,' they just set to the work of relocating any brood they had out. As well as just relocate to darker spots for naps and whatever. The lit up parts of the outnest are mostly used for seed cracking, cleaning, and eating whatever fruit slices is there.

Interesting is that some of the vibrations will set off the whole nest, while others will only set off a small handful of the colony.
When it's just a small group of them going off, things will calm down quickly. But when the whole nest is going off it may take up to 10 min. for them to settle back down.

As much as i try to minimize the vibration stresses they are subject to, there's only so much i can do under the current living conditions i have.
But they seem to be doing well enough for it, i'm not worried about them. Just aware of the less than ideal circumstances of their setup.
They face a fair bit of regular vibration disturbance under my care, but see to weather is well enough.


On another note of harvester ant care.
I was reading that a study of harvesters (do not recall which one specifically, barbados i think) that found a colony that had a large seed larder would still show signs of starvation within 5 days, if they got no new seeds.
They take in all the seeds they can, but in practice they can only open a % of those, in a food for today time window. They may not be able to to open the rest for many days or even weeks.

As well i consider that any creature with a program, does better when they can run that program and not just be idle (herding dogs, WILL HEARD, whatever is around that they can).
So my feeding pattern with the ants is to feed them almost every other day, just in small amounts.

This way they have "something to do" regularly. We'd call this "enrichment" for higher order life forms being kept in captivity. I figure it's the same with all life forms, it is just healthy for them to get to do the things they exist to do.
So they get a tiny bit of fish flake or other protein a few  times a week, and seeds a few times a week too. Just in really tiny amounts most of the time, alternating between seeds or protein every other time. They get something to do almost daily with me.
And with the removable add on vent from THA, they don't get disturbed in the same way as if i remove the whole lid, as i can add seeds and protein easily through it.

 

[Ernteameise]

Some info on the Ants and their setup.

I have found they are disturbed by vibrations and loud noises that i can do little about in our place.
It's tiny, only about 420 sq ft or so. And a 2nd floor garage duplex. In an older building.

The whole place shakes/vibrates for very little. A large truck/boom'n contraption, can vibrate the place and and set them off.

Sometimes rolling my office chair a bit can be enough vibration to set them off.
If i sneeze suddenly (i have famously loud sneezes) without a chance to cover/move away from them, it will set them off.
This space also acts a ;living room entertainment location. The movie/TV is never that loud to set them off, but my loud laughing is sometimes.

 

I can open and close the door on the cabinet they sit atop, and maybe about 40% of the time the vibration will set them off.

Any opening of the enclosures will of course set them off, though the outworld much less so than the outnest, as i now call it.

If the outworld is disturbed odds are it is contained to the outworld, while in nest/outnest ants remain clam. But if the outnest is disturbed this will spread to the nest proper, but not the outworld, where those ants will remain calm.

 

In the morning when the lights are first turned on they clearly get disturbed (in the outnest space), but they are not 'set off,' they just set to the work of relocating any brood they had out. As well as just relocate to darker spots for naps and whatever. The lit up parts of the outnest are mostly used for seed cracking, cleaning, and eating whatever fruit slices is there.

Interesting is that some of the vibrations will set off the whole nest, while others will only set off a small handful of the colony.
When it's just a small group of them going off, things will calm down quickly. But when the whole nest is going off it may take up to 10 min. for them to settle back down.

As much as i try to minimize the vibration stresses they are subject to, there's only so much i can do under the current living conditions i have.
But they seem to be doing well enough for it, i'm not worried about them. Just aware of the less than ideal circumstances of their setup.
They face a fair bit of regular vibration disturbance under my care, but see to weather is well enough.


On another note of harvester ant care.
I was reading that a study of harvesters (do not recall which one specifically, barbados i think) that found a colony that had a large seed larder would still show signs of starvation within 5 days, if they got no new seeds.
They take in all the seeds they can, but in practice they can only open a % of those, in a food for today time window. They may not be able to to open the rest for many days or even weeks.

As well i consider that any creature with a program, does better when they can run that program and not just be idle (herding dogs, WILL HEARD, whatever is around that they can).
So my feeding pattern with the ants is to feed them almost every other day, just in small amounts.

This way they have "something to do" regularly. We'd call this "enrichment" for higher order life forms being kept in captivity. I figure it's the same with all life forms, it is just healthy for them to get to do the things they exist to do.
So they get a tiny bit of fish flake or other protein a few  times a week, and seeds a few times a week too. Just in really tiny amounts most of the time, alternating between seeds or protein every other time. They get something to do almost daily with me.
And with the removable add on vent from THA, they don't get disturbed in the same way as if i remove the whole lid, as i can add seeds and protein easily through it.

 

Hmmm....

my harvesters I feed seed once a week, if at all.

They have stored a lot.

And I also do not get the impression they have issues opening the seed.

In general, they are busy shifting and moving the seed around, so these seed are not hidden and forgotten, but always on their minds.

My ants also do not give the impression that they are starving.

But maybe the observation was done in a different genus / species?

[100lols]

I couldn't agree more with the significance of enrichment and also attention when it comes to maintaining an ant colony in captivity. Ant-keeping for me is not just about providing the basic necessities like food, water, and a suitable habitat; it's also about creating a stimulating environment in the best ways we can.

My ant cabinet experiences some vibrations and disturbances as well, being in our bedroom. jk, I know some species are more sensitive than others. Generally the vacuuming, television, and other daily activities doesn’t seem to cause too many issues for me.

Great update!

[ANTdrew]

I got a fledgling Pogonomyrmex colony with four workers and a founding queen from UtahAnts. I moved the colony into a Dspdrew dirtbox, and they’ve totally disappeared. The founding queen is still in her test tube, but I gave her an outworld if she wants to forage for seeds. I don’t feel I’m off to too great a start, but time will tell.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

@Ernteameise

 

I had not meant to imply any connection between my care routines and the ant study i had come across. It was more that i do this way of keeping, let them have a large larder, keep giving them regular seeds anyway. And then i came across a paper suggesting that larder size is not an exact correlation to, has food to use right now. I just thought it was interesting to note as information for harvester keepers in general.

I really enjoyed the side view mini hearth for seed stash rotation behavior. The larder was up against the glass, and the they would dig to rotate right up against the glass. It was a neat angle on the work. They had a large stash at one point, used it mostly up, and now have another deep stash.

 

 

I got a fledgling Pogonomyrmex colony with four workers and a founding queen from UtahAnts. I moved the colony into a Dspdrew dirtbox, and they’ve totally disappeared. The founding queen is still in her test tube, but I gave her an outworld if she wants to forage for seeds. I don’t feel I’m off to too great a start, but time will tell.

They seem to love to dig, be on heat, and seek out darker spaces. Though they don't commonly flip out if exposed to light (sometimes), and make their nest as much in the small outworld as in the nest. Feel sure it's the humidity from the fruit slice they like most about it.
I got mine as a 20+. I'm an ant noob, didn't want to start out on founding. So can't say what they were like before then. Good luck.

[ANTdrew]

The founding queen has nanitics, too, now. No sign of the dirtbox colony.

[Virginian_ants]

I also got a pogonomyrmex queen and this journal will help me with care. Do yours eat quinoa? I have an excess.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

I also got a pogonomyrmex queen and this journal will help me with care. Do yours eat quinoa? I have an excess.

Not sure. That's one i've not tried on them yet.

 

I got all snooty recently and have been splurging stupidly on gradening seeds for them.
It just opend up a whole ton of possabilites not offered on the bulk food isle. Like carrot, cabbage, tiny tim and blakeyed susans. Stuff they would get in the wild potentially, but we don't eat.

 

I won't keep this up for long as it is however stupid costly on the unit price, compared to bulk isle food seeds. Or even the packs of dandiloin from THA, which i recently bought a large of and they totally get in for.
But it's been fun just to have a visually wide variety of seeds for them to take in.

 

Thanks, I hope it is useful. I write it with the POV of being an ant noob going throgh the process for the first time. For other ant noobs who might be considering the hobby/getting started in it.
 

Edited by Full_Frontal_Yeti, September 7 2023 - 11:50 AM.

[ANTdrew]

Do they take black eyed susan seeds? My yard is full of them.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

Do they take black eyed susan seeds? My yard is full of them.

yes they like em.

So far they like all the flower seeds i've tried.
Which i did figuring wild flower seeds are more common than wild food seeds, so would likely be as common to their diet in the wild too.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

I've decided that the ants place humidity higher on their want list than heat. As they clearly use the outnest space as nest space, relative to the humidity there.
With fruit slices letting off a lot of moisture into the air. Overnight they will consistently move brood out here, where it coldest, but also likely most humid. And even after the lights come on, some days they keep brood out here for many many hours even into the late afternoon commonly.
And just yesterday the queen spent the whole day out here hanging out, and brood was kept out for most of the day too.

But to get that was kind of a gross time line that i documented here.
They just so loved nectarine, they never gave me a chance to take it out as it starting going to rot. While the apple slices would just be less and less popular each day it had dried out a little more, and its outside was getting tougher. But the nectarine just kind of melted into a goo pile they seemed to never get enough of. And really the best way to describe it is, they manged the fruit slice. They just kept it from growing any fuzz, and kind of buried it in trash. But in a way that they could keep licking the outer layer of the trash(dirt, seed husks, and seeds) to get the sugary liquids still.

 

 

On the first nectarine slice i had cleaned out the outnest and left it empty for 24 hours.

So it was mostly empty at that time:

 

And the bigger outworld looks like this during not foraging time, always a few running around and couple clumps of ants that stay out here most of the time, but not "busy."

 

And when no one is out and about, they are packed into the nest

 

 

And they go nuts for nectarine instantly

about 60 seconds later

 

And this cycle repeats without the 24 hour down time commonly. I normally swap out the fruit slice, and just do all the disturbing in one go, rather than make a 2nd go of it later to add fruit.

 

And then they just loved nectarine so much they always had a mob on it, and i could not scoop it out without a more significant disturbance. Also lot harder to be in and out without escapees or other issues arising from so many ants on everything i'm trying to pull out.
So i kept watching for an opportunity that has yet to arrive.

 

here we are 4 days later one morning, they got the brood out, and are busy "managing" that rotting fruit slice

 

 

and then 5 days, sunday morning the queen was in the outnest just being right at home with a pile of brood. She's near the front left of the outworld with her entourage around her.

 

She was out here all day just totally chill'n to declare this is legit nest space as far as she is concerned And where ever she was she would be surrounded by her court.

 

 

 

 

And here later she had moved against the back wall of the outnest, just behind the fake plant you can see her gaster poking out and her court around her. The ants in the front right are having a seed cracking party from fresh forage.

 

 

 

And here this morning the queen has returned to the nest proper, though much of the colony is living out here still, and brood are near the humidity source of rotting fruit. Which still being manged by the ants.

 

I did notice that a couple hunks of the pile have been torn off and taken out to the real trash pile.

I'm hoping this afternoon they will give me the chance to scoop out what's left, but if they manage it on their own to the trash pile, cool i guess.


So they seem to be doing great. The one lone alate will be the only one, and he's yet to leave the nest proper. He just always hangs out on the water tower, and pounces on any food the larvae are releasing.

[Ernteameise]

This is looking great!

I am happy they are doing so great.

Also- they are adorable.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

Bonus post this week, just a few vanity pics really.

 

A show of how much they prfer the humdity from the fruit to the heat from the cable, for mid state larvae. Here we are all the way in the big outworld, and all the way up on the bridge. This image is in the early morning so over night temps were likely near the same, high 60's-low 70's F. when they were brought here to the fruit slice. They really had to truck the brood to bring them here.

And they have consistantly been more into the softer flesh fruits, like plums and approcots, then they are the firmer flesh fruits like apple or pear. They get in for apple, but each day it is less popular, while the softer fruts are just mobbed on from start to whenever i pull them out.

 

 

They just look so content on the slice of plumb.

 

 

And they got some brood on the lower level in the backside of the outworld, behind the decoration rock. But this one lone one was right up front to be seen.

 

 

I took out that plum slice yesterday when it started getting little fuzzy patches, and gave them a pluto slice in the "outnest."

Always organic fruit of course.

Here they are this morning, with special guest star, The Lone Alate. Which is the real impetus behid this post. It's the first time he's left the nest proper for a good photo. He went back into the nest shortly after our photo shoot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ANTdrew]

This is an impressive colony now! Mine are going sloooow. I can at least check on the test tube colony, but the colony in the dirt setup have completely vanished.

[UtahAnts]

This is an impressive colony now! Mine are going sloooow. I can at least check on the test tube colony, but the colony in the dirt setup have completely vanished.

 

Applying a nearby heat source or covering the dirt box may encourage them to dig next to the acrylic?

 

They are looking very healthy, organic nectarines were also a favorite of my harvester colonies.

[ANTdrew]

This is an impressive colony now! Mine are going sloooow. I can at least check on the test tube colony, but the colony in the dirt setup have completely vanished.

Applying a nearby heat source or covering the dirt box may encourage them to dig next to the acrylic?

They are looking very healthy, organic nectarines were also a favorite of my harvester colonies.

The dirtbox they are in is actually an 1/8th inch sandwich of soil on four sides. I initially could see their tunnel, but the ants have ingeniously plastered clay substrate on the glass to totally block all visibility. I think I should have made a sandier mix, but I was rushing. I just need to stay patient, I guess.

Edited by ANTdrew, September 16 2023 - 2:13 AM.

[100lols]

That drone is really cool to see. I’ve seen queens of this species in person, but I’m yet to see a drone.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

This is an impressive colony now! Mine are going sloooow. I can at least check on the test tube colony, but the colony in the dirt setup have completely vanished.

 

This colony went from 28 to 175+ in just about 8 months. They never had an explosion of new ants really, the queen seems to lay at a steady pace rather than get swole trying to rush them out. But once going it looks pretty non-stop. There’s always a number of turning orange pupae, and egg clutches to be seen.

They went from cute to a little scarry in fairly short order.

 

 

As the sun’s angle changes to come in the window more,  I notice that sun influences some of the ants. They seem to want to gather in and get all wall climby scambely for a bit in it. Like the exact opposite of sun beam lounging cats.

 

 

And just boom ants everywhere. They own this space now and that’s the last of the full sized fruit slices I put in there. If I empty it and leave it dry the space mostly empties out with just maybe 8-15 hanging out consistently. Everyone else is just passing through.

 

 

Here’s a couple shots of busy time in the large outworld. Ants everywhere in groups and just mobbing up on everything during their high forage time out here. This is where I put larger fruit slices now and they bring brood out for the humidity of it still. Though not generally as many as in the smaller outworld.

 

 

 

So now instead of a full slice of fruit in the small outword I just drop in a few little pieces of fruit. Like under an inch cube of apple bit. I drop in 2-3 of those little bits. They mob up on it, but over the course of 3-6 days they can take that out to the trash pile on their own, and do so. It is too big to fit through the tube at first but as it dries out/they tear it up,  it will.
This lets me keep giving them fruit here where they will treat the space as nest and bring out brood.
But now they clean it out on their own.

 

 

And last they have started to really manage their trash pile. This had been a very loosely scattered trash area for a long time, Leaving the trash strewn over the whole of the far end between the wall and a little out past the cactus, like a trash carpet in that area. I’d open it up and sweep it back into a neater pile once in a  while in between vacuums. But after last cleaning they started to do this, keeping it piled higher and tighter in a politely managed pile, more out of sight.

 

 

I finally got a new nest section created for them (4^th times the charm), and will give their outworld another full cleaning when I get it hooked up.
I’ll post images of that when I install it, and run out a thread about the process of it.

[ANTdrew]

Looking forward to that. Mine should hit five ants any day now.

[Ernteameise]

OMG, I love that orderly organized trash pile!