15 replies to this topic

[AntsTopia]

This is a big debate in ant keeping. So I was wondering what you guys thoughts on it. Should small colonies be kept in nests and not testubes?

Edited by AntsTopia, December 27 2022 - 3:29 PM.

[AntsTopia]

I don't want this to become aggressive I just want to hear peaceful thoughts.

Edited by AntsTopia, December 27 2022 - 3:30 PM.

[ANTdrew]

Always focus on the colony first, then the formicarium. Growing a big colony in a test tube before moving them into a formicarium is basically always the best practice.

[Zeiss]

This isn't really a big debate from what I've seen.  It's commonly accepted that you move a colony out of a tube once they get too crowded or difficult to handle in just a tube.

[T.C.]

A test tube or a small founding formicarium is what has always been used.

[rptraut]

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

[AntaholicAnonymous]

I move ants out of their tube as soon as the worker batch after the nanitics arrived.
Always before the first winter if possible.
I only use soil setups so I recently figured out how to make terrariums in cups.
Maintainance wise a cup terrarium is the simplest thing I can think of.

[rptraut]

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

 

Sorry about that, I was thinking about this question from the standpoint of the ants.

 

As an ant keeper I have used test tubes to found colonies, and they are a well-documented and easily understood technology that is accepted by most queens who then go on to found colonies.  Test tubes can have problems like drought, flood, mold, lack of queen privacy and escapees when feeding but they are almost a foolproof way to raise a lot of queens in a small space.  However, I have had a couple of cases when queens wouldn't settle in the test tube.  Initially I put together a dirt setup, I just put each queen in a lidded jar with soil, moss and a rock, like a terrarium in a cup.  Both queens successfully founded colonies and eventually I had to dump them out of the jars into proper formicaria.  On the other hand, right now I have two founding Brachymyrmex colonies that were in "dirt setups" all last season and I have yet to see a single ant.  They eat and drink and make tunnels, so I know they're there, but it's easy to hide in a dirt setup when you're a really tiny ant.  Seeing brood or the queen can be difficult or impossible with a dirt setup and molds, bacteria and pests are ever present.

 

Test tubes give excellent visibility of the colony conditions but be cautious to avoid over caring in the early stages of founding when some queens seem to need their privacy.  Queens can eat eggs and brood when disturbed by too much checking, a temptation with test tubes.  Improvements are being made to the test tube such as sponges for water reservoirs and the "bamboo test tube".  Ironically, one of the improvements is the addition of substrate to the test tube, sort of a dirt setup in a test tube.  I put test tubes in my "dirt setups" for nesting chambers and the ants readily use them for brood.  I also use very small test tubes or small glass bottles for founding queens in a setup with absorbent cotton and moss.  It's easy to feed the developing colony as the container has a lid and the rim is treated.  As a colony outgrows the test tube in this dirt setup it's easy to pick the tube and colony out and move them to larger housing.  

 

I have found test tubes to be a reasonably reliable way to raise colonies - dirt setups have helped me save some unhappy and delicate queens, while the queen, brood and underground activity wasn't always that visible.  I have put test tubes in dirt for founding queens and I've put dirt in test tubes for founding queens.  Test tubes are used for brood in my large formicaria.  For me and my ants, sometimes a combination of test tubes and dirt (moss) works the best for founding colonies and larger colonies as well.

[AntsTopia]

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

Sorry about that, I was thinking about this question from the standpoint of the ants.

As an ant keeper I have used test tubes to found colonies, and they are a well-documented and easily understood technology that is accepted by most queens who then go on to found colonies. Test tubes can have problems like drought, flood, mold, lack of queen privacy and escapees when feeding but they are almost a foolproof way to raise a lot of queens in a small space. However, I have had a couple of cases when queens wouldn't settle in the test tube. Initially I put together a dirt setup, I just put each queen in a lidded jar with soil, moss and a rock, like a terrarium in a cup. Both queens successfully founded colonies and eventually I had to dump them out of the jars into proper formicaria. On the other hand, right now I have two founding Brachymyrmex colonies that were in "dirt setups" all last season and I have yet to see a single ant. They eat and drink and make tunnels, so I know they're there, but it's easy to hide in a dirt setup when you're a really tiny ant. Seeing brood or the queen can be difficult or impossible with a dirt setup and molds, bacteria and pests are ever present.

Test tubes give excellent visibility of the colony conditions but be cautious to avoid over caring in the early stages of founding when some queens seem to need their privacy. Queens can eat eggs and brood when disturbed by too much checking, a temptation with test tubes. Improvements are being made to the test tube such as sponges for water reservoirs and the "bamboo test tube". Ironically, one of the improvements is the addition of substrate to the test tube, sort of a dirt setup in a test tube. I put test tubes in my "dirt setups" for nesting chambers and the ants readily use them for brood. I also use very small test tubes or small glass bottles for founding queens in a setup with absorbent cotton and moss. It's easy to feed the developing colony as the container has a lid and the rim is treated. As a colony outgrows the test tube in this dirt setup it's easy to pick the tube and colony out and move them to larger housing.

I have found test tubes to be a reasonably reliable way to raise colonies - dirt setups have helped me save some unhappy and delicate queens, while the queen, brood and underground activity wasn't always that visible. I have put test tubes in dirt for founding queens and I've put dirt in test tubes for founding queens. Test tubes are used for brood in my large formicaria. For me and my ants, sometimes a combination of test tubes and dirt (moss) works the best for founding colonies and larger colonies as well.

Well damn that's a lot of writing, to be honest if you have one of the antscanada towers you can see a little bit of the brood.

Edited by AntsTopia, December 29 2022 - 12:02 PM.

[rptraut]

 

 

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

Sorry about that, I was thinking about this question from the standpoint of the ants.

As an ant keeper I have used test tubes to found colonies, and they are a well-documented and easily understood technology that is accepted by most queens who then go on to found colonies. Test tubes can have problems like drought, flood, mold, lack of queen privacy and escapees when feeding but they are almost a foolproof way to raise a lot of queens in a small space. However, I have had a couple of cases when queens wouldn't settle in the test tube. Initially I put together a dirt setup, I just put each queen in a lidded jar with soil, moss and a rock, like a terrarium in a cup. Both queens successfully founded colonies and eventually I had to dump them out of the jars into proper formicaria. On the other hand, right now I have two founding Brachymyrmex colonies that were in "dirt setups" all last season and I have yet to see a single ant. They eat and drink and make tunnels, so I know they're there, but it's easy to hide in a dirt setup when you're a really tiny ant. Seeing brood or the queen can be difficult or impossible with a dirt setup and molds, bacteria and pests are ever present.

Test tubes give excellent visibility of the colony conditions but be cautious to avoid over caring in the early stages of founding when some queens seem to need their privacy. Queens can eat eggs and brood when disturbed by too much checking, a temptation with test tubes. Improvements are being made to the test tube such as sponges for water reservoirs and the "bamboo test tube". Ironically, one of the improvements is the addition of substrate to the test tube, sort of a dirt setup in a test tube. I put test tubes in my "dirt setups" for nesting chambers and the ants readily use them for brood. I also use very small test tubes or small glass bottles for founding queens in a setup with absorbent cotton and moss. It's easy to feed the developing colony as the container has a lid and the rim is treated. As a colony outgrows the test tube in this dirt setup it's easy to pick the tube and colony out and move them to larger housing.

I have found test tubes to be a reasonably reliable way to raise colonies - dirt setups have helped me save some unhappy and delicate queens, while the queen, brood and underground activity wasn't always that visible. I have put test tubes in dirt for founding queens and I've put dirt in test tubes for founding queens. Test tubes are used for brood in my large formicaria. For me and my ants, sometimes a combination of test tubes and dirt (moss) works the best for founding colonies and larger colonies as well.

Well damn that's a lot of writing, to be honest if you have one of the antscanada towers you can see a little bit of the brood.

 

 

Is this too much detail for a forum like this?  I get very little feedback, comments or questions about what I write, I don't even know if people read any of it..  I just hope my observations can help someone.  

[ANTdrew]

Detail is a good thing. I’ve read and enjoyed your posts.

[AntsTopia]

Detail is a good thing. I’ve read and enjoyed your posts.

Agreed

[Chickalo]

 

 

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

Sorry about that, I was thinking about this question from the standpoint of the ants.

As an ant keeper I have used test tubes to found colonies, and they are a well-documented and easily understood technology that is accepted by most queens who then go on to found colonies. Test tubes can have problems like drought, flood, mold, lack of queen privacy and escapees when feeding but they are almost a foolproof way to raise a lot of queens in a small space. However, I have had a couple of cases when queens wouldn't settle in the test tube. Initially I put together a dirt setup, I just put each queen in a lidded jar with soil, moss and a rock, like a terrarium in a cup. Both queens successfully founded colonies and eventually I had to dump them out of the jars into proper formicaria. On the other hand, right now I have two founding Brachymyrmex colonies that were in "dirt setups" all last season and I have yet to see a single ant. They eat and drink and make tunnels, so I know they're there, but it's easy to hide in a dirt setup when you're a really tiny ant. Seeing brood or the queen can be difficult or impossible with a dirt setup and molds, bacteria and pests are ever present.

Test tubes give excellent visibility of the colony conditions but be cautious to avoid over caring in the early stages of founding when some queens seem to need their privacy. Queens can eat eggs and brood when disturbed by too much checking, a temptation with test tubes. Improvements are being made to the test tube such as sponges for water reservoirs and the "bamboo test tube". Ironically, one of the improvements is the addition of substrate to the test tube, sort of a dirt setup in a test tube. I put test tubes in my "dirt setups" for nesting chambers and the ants readily use them for brood. I also use very small test tubes or small glass bottles for founding queens in a setup with absorbent cotton and moss. It's easy to feed the developing colony as the container has a lid and the rim is treated. As a colony outgrows the test tube in this dirt setup it's easy to pick the tube and colony out and move them to larger housing.

I have found test tubes to be a reasonably reliable way to raise colonies - dirt setups have helped me save some unhappy and delicate queens, while the queen, brood and underground activity wasn't always that visible. I have put test tubes in dirt for founding queens and I've put dirt in test tubes for founding queens. Test tubes are used for brood in my large formicaria. For me and my ants, sometimes a combination of test tubes and dirt (moss) works the best for founding colonies and larger colonies as well.

Well damn that's a lot of writing, to be honest if you have one of the antscanada towers you can see a little bit of the brood.

 

 

AntsCanada towers aren't reasonable if you need a lot of set ups (it's a okay price for the space it gives, but 30 to 60 dollars-per-formicaria isn't favourable when you have a bunch of queens/colonies that can't/won't live in test tubes for whatever reason, in which case I'd prefer jars or containers as rptraut mentioned already).

 

I'm going to add on to what rptraut said, as he already made many good points.

 

I assume by this that you mean a plaster/plastic/whatever formicarium.  Putting a small colony, let's say 50ish workers of a medium sized species, into a formicarium that's the size of a THA fortress.  They'll likely only take up one chamber of the entire formicarium and use the rest as a trash can.  This is because in the wild animals like springtails and isopods would simply decay the trash and it would turn back into soil.  In a plastic formicarium, it simply moulds over and hurts the colony.  Ants also tend to prefer smaller spaces (look at Camponotus nests for reference), and having more space than necessary can create stress which can lead to death.

 

So, to answer the question that the Anting Community is apparently dying to know:

No, big nests are not good for small/founding colonies.  If they're in test tube set-ups, keep them in there until it's very very obvious they need new space.

[Locness]

I'm a newbie to ant keeping, but I've always based my animal husbandry on whether or not I am meeting the conditions the animal needs. This determines whether or not I need to downsize or upsize the habitat. My M. mexicanus came in a flooded test tube, so I tried to let her be for 2 weeks after draining the excess water, but she eventually ate all of her eggs. I then placed the tube into a small tub setup, but she did not lay for another 2 weeks. I finally placed her into a min hearth XL because of concerns I had regarding heat/humidity and she surprisingly lay immediately. First she drank nectar prior to laying and a few weeks later, I had about 9 workers. She continued to lay and produce workers, eventually repletes. Despite the size, I think the mini hearth met her needs, which include humidity and temperature. Ants are also weird and unpredictable 

[Ants_Dakota]

Most ants, when given more room than they need, will try to fill it with anything they can get their Jaws around. This usually results in mold, which can scare many antkeepers, and possibly could harm the ants. Some species may even be seriously harmed by large spaces and not lay at all(I have found many founding queens around here at least tend to do this). That being said, some species love the textures of nests and it benefits them greatly. In that case your best bet would be to get tiny formicariums, which por amor ants or utah ants offer. I think the general rule of thumb would be to get the most life out of a formicarium by keeping the ants in it as long as possible, as it minimizes the chances of the ants dying for "supposedly no reason".(unless you are experienced with the species you are keeping and know they can live in large spaces and be fine.)

Edited by Ants_Dakota, January 2 2023 - 6:44 PM.

[Serafine]

Ants existed on this planet millions of years before test tubes were even invented.

Ants usually nest in soil and/or rotting wood which in a way is a massive sponge. There are some ants that do well in dry conditions but most ants are NOT made to live in plastic or concrete nests.

A general problem with may - far too many - ant nests is a lack of hydration and as a consequence a lack of humidity. Ants that cannot deal well with dry conditions will have their larvae dry out and die - this is one of the MOST COMMON results when inexperienced keepers put their ants into a big nest. The ants may survive but the brood either dries out and dies outright or (more commonly) fails to pupate and you end up with crippled workers. I've seen this way too often happen with Messor barbarus in particular.

 

If you put ants in a test tube with a water reservoir and block off the entrance with some cotton and a plastic straw as entrance you will ALWAYS have decent humidity in the tube and a constant supply of fresh water (the ants can lick it from the cotton) - because that's another point people tend to forget, ants not just need watering for humdity in their nest, most species also need DIRECT ACCESS to a water source.

 

Also a test tube guarantees much more consistent levels of humidity, compared to a small nest that gets a massive humidity spike every time the user adds water to the water chamber (and risks floodig the nest if too much water is added).