31 replies to this topic

[Works4TheGood]

Hi all,

 

I'm designing my first formicarium with the intention of printing it out on a 3D printer (some assembly required) and I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions for me prior to printing it.

 

To hydrate the nest, I would remove the small bottom lid at the bottom and poor water into the base.  The base would be filled with cotton or a mold-resistant sponge.

 

Although it's not indicated in any of the pictures, I intend to hot-glue some mesh to the bottom of the main nesting area to separate it as a barrier from the hydration medium.

 

I haven't figured out a good way to control the humidity yet.  I could place some overlapping plates of hard plastic on top of the hydration medium to somewhat reduce the surface area between the hydration medium and the main nesting area.  I plan on buying a hygrometer probe and use it to perfecting the humidity level before I introduce the ants.

 

Any unused entrances would be blocked with cotton-wads, or have tubes that are blocked with cotton wads.

 

A custom cut 1/8" thick piece of plexy-glass/acrylic would fit at the top of the main nesting area.  The lid would rest on the plexy-glass.  

 

In the case of cleaning, the holes in the center and corners of the main nesting area should allow a toothpick to be inserted from underneath and pop off the acrylic.  Then a pressure sprayer could do the rest of the job.

 

Any suggestions on the design?

 

~dpd

 

 

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[Foogoo]

Neat design! I love the second lid, heating cable channel, and depth. Here are a few of my initial impressions from looking at your models:

• I wonder if the water reservoir being the entire bottom would be too much humidity. I notice if I water my grout-type nests daily it can sometimes be too much, even in the dry Socal weather.
• It's not fully clear to me, but if you have a sponge as the reservoir and it molds, will you have to displace the colony to replace it?
• Also, no way to set up a moisture gradient.
• Would it be easier/cheaper to carve from a solid block of plastic?
• Is there any means for ventilation?

What about make the water reservoir only half of the bottom (so you have a slight gradient) and removable? Maybe have a bottom to the nest with small holes. Or have the hydration reservoir be a sponge that sits vertically along one side? Can't wait to see the progress!

[dspdrew]

Unless a sponge is made from organic material, or has some sort of organic material in or on it, I don't see any reason that it would ever mold. I use sponges to transfer water from a water tank to absorbent nest material, and have never had sponges mold. I have however, had them eaten by springtails that were getting through the mesh on a springtail culture. This was easily fixed with my change from mesh barriers to unglazed ceramic.

[Ants4fun]

You might run into some legal issues ,however. That looks awfully close to the patented Antscanada hybrid nest series...

[Works4TheGood]

Hi FooGoo,

 

I'm so glad that you've given me some feedback to mull over!  Below are my comments.

• Regarding, "... the water reservoir being the entire bottom would be too much humidity".  Excellent point!  I made the surface area at the bottom of the main "Ant Nest" conservatively high just in case I had a species that liked lots of humidity.  However, this could prove life-threatening to species that don't.  In such cases, my plan is to place some flat, water-proof objects on top of some of the cotton in order to reduce the surface area.  Alternatively, I could put in some sealed, water-filled sandwich bags as filler in the "Water Reservoir".  This would also allow me to set up a moisture gradient.

 

• Regarding, "... if you have a sponge as the reservoir and it molds, will you have to displace the colony to replace it?"  Yes.  The "Water Reservoir" remains separable from the main "Ant Nest".  The only pieces in the diagram that are fused together permanently is the "Heating Cable" section, and the main "Ant Nest".  The cotton can be replaced with ease at any time.  Good question!

 

• Regarding, "Would it be easier/cheaper to carve from a solid block of plastic?"  I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing that!  .   I think this is easiest for me because we have a 3D printer at work that I can borrow.

 

• Regarding, "Is there any means for ventilation?"  The only ventilation in the current design would be to fill the unused entrances with cotton (there are 6 entrances).  Do you think that that will give the proper amount of ventilation?  Is there a better way?

[Foogoo]

Unless a sponge is made from organic material, or has some sort of organic material in or on it, I don't see any reason that it would ever mold. I use sponges to transfer water from a water tank to absorbent nest material, and have never had sponges mold. I have however, had them eaten by springtails that were getting through the mesh on a springtail culture. This was easily fixed with my change from mesh barriers to unglazed ceramic.

The issue I always have with sponges, cotton, and nests in general is no matter how neat I keep the food, the ants drag it everywhere else and mold grows with a bit of high humidity. And I don't know if it was the ants putting things on it or something else (mildew? bacteria?) but the cotton from one of my acrylic nests was a stinky mess when I removed it. Speaking of which, I imagine sponges (with their surface area and moisture) can also facilitate growth of harmful bacteria. I still use PVA in some of my nests though and have yet to have an issue...

 

You might run into some legal issues ,however. That looks awfully close to the patented Antscanada hybrid nest series...

I'm no lawyer but I see differentiating differences (not having hands-on experience with either one). I've noticed this hobby is unique, I've never seen patents and trademarks being filed or disputed on DIY creations people sell in any of the other hobbies I dabble in...

 

 

Hi FooGoo,

 

I'm so glad that you've given me some feedback to mull over!  Below are my comments.

• Regarding, "Would it be easier/cheaper to carve from a solid block of plastic?"  I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing that!  .   I think this is easiest for me because we have a 3D printer at work that I can borrow.

• Regarding, "Is there any means for ventilation?"  The only ventilation in the current design would be to fill the unused entrances with cotton (there are 6 entrances).  Do you think that that will give the proper amount of ventilation?  Is there a better way?

Shoot in that case, I'd 3D print it as well! What about some mesh or very small holes? Personally, I'm not that confident in cotton allowing airflow, especially if the user packs it too tight. And if it's packed loose, there's the risk of the ants digging through it.

[dspdrew]

 

Unless a sponge is made from organic material, or has some sort of organic material in or on it, I don't see any reason that it would ever mold. I use sponges to transfer water from a water tank to absorbent nest material, and have never had sponges mold. I have however, had them eaten by springtails that were getting through the mesh on a springtail culture. This was easily fixed with my change from mesh barriers to unglazed ceramic.

The issue I always have with sponges, cotton, and nests in general is no matter how neat I keep the food, the ants drag it everywhere else and mold grows with a bit of high humidity. And I don't know if it was the ants putting things on it or something else (mildew? bacteria?) but the cotton from one of my acrylic nests was a stinky mess when I removed it. Speaking of which, I imagine sponges (with their surface area and moisture) can also facilitate growth of harmful bacteria. I still use PVA in some of my nests though and have yet to have an issue...

 

Well I don't know, I guess my nests don't have ants actually touching the sponges, so I guess maybe that's the difference. My sponges only transfer water to the nest material.

[Works4TheGood]

Regarding, "... I guess my nests don't have ants actually touching the sponges", that's a very good point too.  Although I plan on gluing a fine mesh to the bottom of the main nest area in order to separate the ants from the water reservoir, the ants would still be in direct contact with the cotton just by walking on the holes in the mesh.  Do you think I should make the water reservoir very deep so that the cotton at the bottom never touches the ants?  Or would the ants need to touch the cotton in order to drink?

 

Maybe the best solution is to design an upright vertical formicarium instead.  This would have the advantage that lose debris from the ants would not fall through the mesh and into the reservoir.  But before I do that, maybe it's probably best just to change the cotton once every few weeks, and also try to sterilize the water reservoir during each cleaning.

 

I'll have to ponder the ventilation problem.  Does anyone else use acrylic containers as formicariums (I'm excluding the AntsCanada Omni nests here because theirs are constructed in layers, which solves the problem that way).  Maybe the right way to do this is to add ventilation to the water reservoir, and that in turn will ventilate the ants as well.  

[Huch]

Regarding, "... I guess my nests don't have ants actually touching the sponges", that's a very good point too.  Although I plan on gluing a fine mesh to the bottom of the main nest area in order to separate the ants from the water reservoir, the ants would still be in direct contact with the cotton just by walking on the holes in the mesh.  Do you think I should make the water reservoir very deep so that the cotton at the bottom never touches the ants?  Or would the ants need to touch the cotton in order to drink?

 

Maybe the best solution is to design an upright vertical formicarium instead.  This would have the advantage that lose debris from the ants would not fall through the mesh and into the reservoir.  But before I do that, maybe it's probably best just to change the cotton once every few weeks, and also try to sterilize the water reservoir during each cleaning.

 

I'll have to ponder the ventilation problem.  Does anyone else use acrylic containers as formicariums (I'm excluding the AntsCanada Omni nests here because theirs are constructed in layers, which solves the problem that way).  Maybe the right way to do this is to add ventilation to the water reservoir, and that in turn will ventilate the ants as well.  

 

For the ventilation issue, why can't you us the mesh/screen?  Or, you could do a L shape hole or diagnol hole with fluon painted in the vertical shaft/daignol shaft so the ants cannot climb out. To be completely honest, I do not know if ventilation is even an issue. I have seen nature documantaries where wild ants create ventilation shafts. On the other hand, I have had many colonies and I have never done anything to create ventilation.

 

EIther way, your design looks great. I would love to build something like this, but I have not solved my 3d printers Lift/warping issues with large or tall designs. Hopefully you do not have that problem.

Edited by Huch, August 3 2015 - 5:54 PM.

[Works4TheGood]

Regarding, "... why can't you use the mesh/screen?"  I really just want the 3D printer to do as much of the work as possible.  I'll have to think it over for a while - maybe there's something clever that I can do.

[dspdrew]

Regarding, "... I guess my nests don't have ants actually touching the sponges", that's a very good point too.  Although I plan on gluing a fine mesh to the bottom of the main nest area in order to separate the ants from the water reservoir, the ants would still be in direct contact with the cotton just by walking on the holes in the mesh.  Do you think I should make the water reservoir very deep so that the cotton at the bottom never touches the ants?  Or would the ants need to touch the cotton in order to drink?

 

That's actually sort of a question I have had for a long time. I've just always designed my nests so that the hydration system provides drinking water as well as humidity.

 

 

Maybe the best solution is to design an upright vertical formicarium instead.  This would have the advantage that lose debris from the ants would not fall through the mesh and into the reservoir.  But before I do that, maybe it's probably best just to change the cotton once every few weeks, and also try to sterilize the water reservoir during each cleaning.

 

Upright is how the ones I'm working on are oriented.

 

 

I'll have to ponder the ventilation problem.  Does anyone else use acrylic containers as formicariums (I'm excluding the AntsCanada Omni nests here because theirs are constructed in layers, which solves the problem that way).  Maybe the right way to do this is to add ventilation to the water reservoir, and that in turn will ventilate the ants as well.  

 

I'm not so sure ventilation in a nest is really all that important anymore. More ventilation equals less humidity. I think it's the humidity that causes mold problems, so it's just something you have to deal with in other ways if you want your ants to live in the proper conditions. What I think needs tons of ventilation, is the out world. Out worlds not having enough ventilation I think is more of a problem in a lot of designs I see.

 

 

If you want to get a better idea of what I'm talking about, you should check out these two threads of mine. I have actually tried a lot of these same ideas, and wrote about it all along the way. This might help answer some of your questions. I know it has answered a lot of mine.

 

http://www.formicult...ated-6-17-2015/

http://www.formicult...ated-6-25-2015/

[Works4TheGood]

So I think I've solved the humidity-gradient problem with my formicarium.  I'm going to allow myself to add spacers in the bottom panel in order to reduce the surface area between the bottom panel and the nest.  So basically, instead of cotton in some places, I can use the spacers and this will cut down on the humidity.

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[Works4TheGood]

I reduced the height of the nest design today. A friend of mine made a good point; he said he wouldn't want a bedroom the size of a warehouse. I agreed and my formicarium provided 100 ft ceilings, which might be undesirable to an ant.

He made another unexpected comment. He said that if he were an ant, he wouldn't want to walk on mesh 24/7. I admit that I don't have a good solution for this other than to ensure that cotton and the hydration spacers touch nearly every square cm of the mesh.

[Huch]

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see when you have it done.

[dspdrew]

He made another unexpected comment. He said that if he were an ant, he wouldn't want to walk on mesh 24/7.

 

That's why I don't use mesh for that.

[drtrmiller]

I'm going to use mesh soon. If it works, it works.

[Works4TheGood]

Latest revision.  Improvement-suggestions encouraged.

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[Foogoo]

Those removable sections are pretty cool, combines the pros of acrylic nests with traditional nests. Start making some prototypes! 

[Works4TheGood]

I completely changing the design.  I wanted something more modular - something that I could expand as the colony grew.

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[William. T]

Seems good for some species I got. Looks like a bang for your buck design.