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Camponotus pennsylvanicus Outdoor Foraging?


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#1 Offline rptraut - Posted August 16 2022 - 9:33 PM

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I have a four year old Camponotus pennsylvanicus colony (approx 1500 workers)  that have outgrown two outworlds, so I recently added a third.  This has relieved the congestion for the short term but in the long term I wondered about allowing them to forage in the good old outdoors, which I can easily do.  Their foraging area is pesticide free but I wonder how easily they would try to relocate.  Is there a way to install a queen excluder without stopping the larger workers?  Is it easier to just keep adding additional outworlds?  I am interested to see what kind of things they would bring back to the colony after years of confinement.  


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My father always said I had ants in my pants.

#2 Offline United-Ants - Posted August 16 2022 - 10:02 PM

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Way easier just to keep adding new outwolds

#3 Offline ZTYguy - Posted August 17 2022 - 12:14 AM

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I have a four year old Camponotus pennsylvanicus colony (approx 1500 workers)  that have outgrown two outworlds, so I recently added a third.  This has relieved the congestion for the short term but in the long term I wondered about allowing them to forage in the good old outdoors, which I can easily do.  Their foraging area is pesticide free but I wonder how easily they would try to relocate.  Is there a way to install a queen excluder without stopping the larger workers?  Is it easier to just keep adding additional outworlds?  I am interested to see what kind of things they would bring back to the colony after years of confinement.  

If you want something similar you should add an open topped naturalistic terrarium. Just make sure there are no places in the terrarium for the colony to relocate to. You could even add a water feature and I think if you were to add isopods, smaller roaches, crickets, other smaller arthropods it would be quite an eye catcher.


Currently: Considering moving to Australia
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#4 Offline rptraut - Posted August 17 2022 - 1:50 AM

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The two outworlds they outgrew are exactly that. Both are naturalistic setups with water features like oases, and pieces of old carpenter ant nest wood for them to inhabit. The third outworld is the same, a three dimensional playground. Most of my formicaria are naturalistic or at least contain some natural elements for the ants to explore. I don't think I could have kept so many ants "entertained" for so long if their outworlds weren't so varied and interesting for them.
My father always said I had ants in my pants.

#5 Offline ANTdrew - Posted August 17 2022 - 2:30 AM

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The two outworlds they outgrew are exactly that. Both are naturalistic setups with water features like oases, and pieces of old carpenter ant nest wood for them to inhabit. The third outworld is the same, a three dimensional playground. Most of my formicaria are naturalistic or at least contain some natural elements for the ants to explore. I don't think I could have kept so many ants "entertained" for so long if their outworlds weren't so varied and interesting for them.

You need to share your secret to success with Camponotus. I wish you had journaled the colony’s growth.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#6 Offline Serafine - Posted August 17 2022 - 7:51 AM

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Is there a way to install a queen excluder without stopping the larger workers?

Theoretically yes, HOWEVER i've seen people trying this with Lasius and Formica and it didn't go well.

If the ants really want to move the queen will become thinner and thinner until she fits (probably because she gets visited by less workers and thus gets less food) and occasionally (i think this was the case with Lasius niger or flavus, definitely some sort of Lasius) the workers will MAKE the queen fit, even if it means relocating her in fragments.

 

Is it easier to just keep adding additional outworlds?  I am interested to see what kind of things they would bring back to the colony after years of confinement.

I have constantly added outworlds to my Camponotus setup and never ran into any issues. The ants do not exactly make huge use of the mid-section outworlds unless you frequently add food there but they will definitely have some ants even in the furtherst outworlds (usually the oldest workers that are close to the end of their lifespan).


We should respect all forms of consciousness. The body is just a vessel, a mere hull.

Welcome to Lazy Tube - My Camponotus Journal


#7 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted August 17 2022 - 5:08 PM

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As long as there's no wet, rotting wood ANYWHERE on your property (including your house, I would have it fixed if it's old), you should be good, as the nest is as good as anywhere else they could possibly nest. But it is still risky, and if you want to take that risk, that's up to you.


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#8 Offline rptraut - Posted August 17 2022 - 11:18 PM

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From my Camponotus colony Journal I offer these observations.

 

One of the main reasons for the success of this and my other colonies, I think, is because I pay special attention to the queen and providing a safe, secure chamber for her to live in.  When I constructed the nest chamber for this Camponotus colony, I made a small chamber for the queen and her entourage.  It seems to me that many queens, Lasius, Tetramorium, Myrmica, and Camponotus, prefer to have a separate chamber apart from the rest of the colony.  This can be as simple as a separate chamber as I just described, or a completely separate chamber some distance from the main nest.  My Lasius queens, in particular, prefer to have a chamber apart from the main colony,  I usually use something like a small test tube buried in moss close to the nest.  A queen chamber apart from the main nest has the added advantage that you can inspect the nest chamber without disturbing the queen.  I think this is more important than many people think.  Last year when I inspected the Camponotus colony it became obvious that the red film worked to keep the workers calm, but I could see the queen scurrying around trying to find a dark place to hide.  I believe queens see light differently than workers.  I also felt there was a reduction in egg laying after these inspections, probably because the queen had to settle back down to egg laying after being disturbed.  This year I placed a piece of black paper over the queen chamber so it is kept dark even during inspections of the rest of the nest.  Egg laying has been consistent with large batches.

 

I have been amazed at the brood piles the colony has raised this year.  Of course they would never have been able to raise them without proper nutrition.  I feed them the usual insects, but they also enjoy many of the things I cook for supper.  Chicken (dark meat only), cooked chicken liver, pork (raw and cooked), scrambled eggs, and fish (salmon and haddock).  The added advantage of these foods is that they produce no garbage.  I have also provided them with bird droppings, but I can't honestly say that I noticed any dramatic effort to collect it or take it into the nest.  I feed them every day and they have sugar water and fresh water at all times.  A queen producing lots of eggs and the food for the colony to raise them to workers has to be a successful colony.

 

I don't think we understand all of the environmental conditions that ants need to thrive.  Many plants require different daytime and night time temperatures, perhaps this is true for Camponotus as they are naturally exposed to these variations in the wild and may actually require them.  Also, there are some creatures, ie turtles, that require sunshine to metabolize Calcium for their hard shell.  I keep my Camponotus colony in a greenhouse which is actually shaded for most of the day, but the ants do get direct sunshine in their outworlds for part of the afternoon.   All the rest of my colonies get sunshine for a period each day on the warm, dry side of their formicarium.  I shade the cool, damp side.  I think some ants require sunshine to be healthy.

There, I just saved you months of journal reading and gave you the condensed version of some of my observations.  I have more, let me know what you think.


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My father always said I had ants in my pants.

#9 Offline futurebird - Posted August 18 2022 - 6:54 AM

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Even if there is no rotting wood a massive colony will still take the opportunity to make a few satellite nests. Their desire for satellites is intense.  They will live in a plastic bucket, under a potted plant ANYTHING. They won't even be that hard for you to find. I tend to dislike long connecting tubes since ants tend to linger in them, but maybe a nice long tube connecting the "far" outworld would make a satellite nest there feel far enough away.

I had a hilarious Camponotus escape earlier this summer. They managed to make a hole near a connecting tube. They set up a satellite nest in my art supply drawer.  They were so sneaky about it and quite proud of the whole thing. I noticed ants coming and going and they were caught! They were just in the back of the drawer in a cute little pile when I tracked them down, about 300-400 ants, some holding brood.  Notably their old formicarium was also in the back of this drawer and they had filled that up too as best they could. I have since connected this old formicarium to their outworld and asperated the rest back into the main outworld. The older ants seem to like that old nest so I call it "the retirement home" --although the older ants are also the most fanatical and mad about live fruit flies or if a crushed roach starts twitching and someone sounds the alarm. 

All the old ladies run out of the retirement home and start dismembering the "threat" -- When I pass human retirement homes on my walks now I shudder just a little. 

These ants had the whole Bronx and NYC at their command when they escaped! But, all they really seemed to want was to go about 6 feet away ... and be in a pile in their old nest no less.  I'm very confident that I re-collected everylast one... that's how contained their exploring was. 

Interesting ideas about giving the queen a little dark box. I'm hooking up a new much larger wooden nest for this colony soon and I will try putting a bit of blackout paper over part of the glass to make a "darkest part" of the nest, that way I can check on their move, but they can learn that this particular section will never be light. 

I do agree that keeping ants like others keep bees would be fun. Though I already do this to some degree. There are some favorite colonies in the park that I visit regularly, often with a few dead crickets or dubias as a gift. (urban ants aren't impressed with sugar, they crave mostly protein, rural ants go nuts for honey and candy, my urban "observation" colonies hardly even stop to look at honey. I guess it's not hard to find spilled sugar when you live near humans! )

 


Starting this July I'm posting videos of my ants every week on youTube.

I like to make relaxing videos that capture the joy of watching ants.

If that sounds like your kind of thing... follow me >here<


#10 Offline rptraut - Posted August 18 2022 - 7:14 PM

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I have tried to make their housing as varied and interesting as possible.  The main nest is connected to the first outworld with about 8 inches of tubing.  The second outworld is connected to the first by about four feet of tubing, coiled up.  The third outworld is connected to the second with five feet of tubing.  They get some exercise going back and forth between the nest and outworlds.  I think my colony has many satellite nests, depending on what your criteria is.  The Camponotus colony doesn't have any eggs, larvae or pupae in these "nests", but a large number of ants hang out in each one.  I use old wood from Carpenter ant nests, hollow pieces of wood, even a racoon skull, at the entrance (exit) from each outworld.  The ants use them as guardhouses to check out who is coming and going.  They also patrol from there and drag large food items there for processing.  I don't think I could house so many ants in the outworlds if they didn't have these places to inhabit.  

 

Our property is well treed with a large number of mature trees, therefore, there is rotting wood and places for Camponotus to live.  That's where this colony came from.  I'm sure they would find somewhere to move to if I let them out to forage.  That is their nature.  

 

Since I added the third outworld the crowding has been reduced in the other outworlds, for the time being.  The colony is starting to raise a new batch of eggs, so it will be awhile until they eclose and add to the congestion again. I think they will have enough outworld space until it is time to hibernate.   

 

2022-07-11 018.JPG

 

I took this picture in the early morning when everybody was still in bed.  The first outworld is on the right, it is connected to the second world with the coiled tubing so they have to go about four feet to get from one side of the divider to the other.  There is lots to keep an ant busy.


My father always said I had ants in my pants.




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