21 replies to this topic

[Roughskinned]

Hello everyone! I've read this forum somewhat infrequently over the last few years, and 2 years ago I finally decided to get a colony of my own. I caught a pennsylvanicus queen, and she went into hibernation in her large test tube with 22 workers. But last week, I noticed some mold, and I did not think it would grow terribly fast in the cold, so I let them be but kept a close eye. Over the course of last week, ants began dying. They were still hibernating, so I did not want to disturb them, but more ants died, so I tried covering the mold with more cotton in an attempt to halt its progress, but it seemed undeterred. Now, I only have the queen and 2 workers, and I do not know what to do. I'm destraught that this happened, and any advice is welcome.

[Manitobant]

Move them to a new test tube as quickly as you can. Don’t bother using light or heat, just get all the dead ones out and dump the survivors.

[Roughskinned]

Hello and thank you so much for the information - I have moved them to a new test tube with both workers and what looks to be 5 larvae. Though now, one of the workers does not look so good. Should I try and take them out of hibernation? I started them in october. I really hope they make it from this. I can't believe all this, but I am giving them my all. It seems only one worker is able to collect the honey I tried offering them (they're at 45 degrees).

[Kaelwizard]

Brood boosting is an option. Cocoons can still be found in winter, Becuase workers protein load larvae before hibernation.
The odds aren’t too great… how much brood?
Look at attachment for the odds(this is a theory for first brood odds of survival… I wish you ALL of my luck! Don’t be discouraged, I have had queens come back from things like this! Try protein loading the ants.

Did you come up with this data yourself?

[Roughskinned]

update - both of my queen's workers died, though the queen herself is actually looking quite lively. Is there anything I can do for her? can she even feed herself if I were to give her fruit flies or the like?

[OiledOlives]

Brood boosting is an option. Cocoons can still be found in winter, Becuase workers protein load larvae before hibernation.
The odds aren’t too great… how much brood?
Look at attachment for the odds(this is a theory for first brood odds of survival… I wish you ALL of my luck! Don’t be discouraged, I have had queens come back from things like this! Try protein loading the ants.

Chart appears to be incorrect for most species. Some species cannot even get a 10 worker nanitic batch while if Liometopum apiculatum or Atta cephalotes got just 10 workers, they would pretty much be doomed. Also, it is very very rare for cocoons to be found during diapause. Most ants either have no brood or small larvae when they enter hibernation. I do agree with your statement of brood boosting however, I'd just recommend it when colonies outside got pupae. I am curious though, where did you collect your data points from? What are the "a" and the "b" at the top of the line above the "5" and "10" for? What do you mean when you say "average worker weight", and do you have a quantitative measure for this? And why does the chart imply that colonies with a nanitic batch of 1-3 will not survive?

[Roughskinned]

If the chart is correct, which I hope it is not, my lone queen will not survive. She is still alive as of now but I do not know how to help her

[OiledOlives]

If the chart is correct, which I hope it is not, my lone queen will not survive. She is still alive as of now but I do not know how to help her

Give her either Camponotus subgenus pupae from outside (available in the spring, depending on where you are) or collect C. pennsylvanicus workers from outside. I've had success with giving C. chromaiodes, a similar species, minors, media, and even the largest majors without problems. My success with pennsylvanicus has been limited however, so I'd try to collect the smallest size of workers. I have also had success with worker boosting in Camponotus nearcticus without any issues.

Wait for wild colonies to get pupae if you can, but if you want her to get back on her feet quickly, I'd add workers.

Edited by OiledOlives, January 12 2022 - 7:34 PM.

[Manitobant]

Sadly, if a colony collapses and the queen loses all her workers, it is very likely she will die. Most fully claustral queens are unable to re-found a colony, even with constant feeding. My advice would be to put her back into hibernation until you can brood boost her with pupae in spring, though know that her chances of survival are very slim.

[Roughskinned]

Unfortunately, I could not find any camponotus colonies with accessible brood and none of my friends had them. My queen died about 2 days ago. RIP my little pennsylvanicus (June 2020 - January 2022)

[PaigeX]

sorry to hear your queen died. 

[ANTdrew]

Brood boosting is an option. Cocoons can still be found in winter, Becuase workers protein load larvae before hibernation.
The odds aren’t too great… how much brood?
Look at attachment for the odds(this is a theory for first brood odds of survival… I wish you ALL of my luck! Don’t be discouraged, I have had queens come back from things like this! Try protein loading the ants.

Did you come up with this data yourself?

No, it is in a myrmecology text book…

Indeed. This graph is from page 158 of EO Wilson’s The Ants.

[OiledOlives]

 

 

Brood boosting is an option. Cocoons can still be found in winter, Becuase workers protein load larvae before hibernation.
The odds aren’t too great… how much brood?
Look at attachment for the odds(this is a theory for first brood odds of survival… I wish you ALL of my luck! Don’t be discouraged, I have had queens come back from things like this! Try protein loading the ants.

Chart appears to be incorrect for most species. Some species cannot even get a 10 worker nanitic batch while if Liometopum apiculatum or Atta cephalotes got just 10 workers, they would pretty much be doomed. Also, it is very very rare for cocoons to be found during diapause. Most ants either have no brood or small larvae when they enter hibernation. I do agree with your statement of brood boosting however, I'd just recommend it when colonies outside got pupae. I am curious though, where did you collect your data points from? What are the "a" and the "b" at the top of the line above the "5" and "10" for? What do you mean when you say "average worker weight", and do you have a quantitative measure for this? And why does the chart imply that colonies with a nanitic batch of 1-3 will not survive?

Hey, it isn’t my chart, and once again, it is a theory measured in NATURE. Also, note some of it is from the 90s so it may be a little outdated. Also, a colony with 1 to 3 workers in the wild would have one die out Lilly from natural causes, and it is very likly that one is killed while foraging…

 

Please elaborate. You are still making no sense. Is the chart for a specific species of Camponotus? Also, wouldn't it have been a better idea to cite that the chart was from The Ants before posting it with no other context?

[ANTdrew]

The caption beneath the graph says, “The inferred evolutionary determinants of size and number of workers in the first brood of an ant colony.” It is in a section of the book describing why ant colonies choose to produce more tiny nanitics as opposed to fewer full size workers.