78 replies to this topic

[LC3]

Perhap the alates will drop their wings and act like superworkers.

Apparently S. geminata workers sometimes do that.

 

Also Nurbs that is weird based on what you said. I have nothing to say.

[nurbs]

I see a cluster of tiny eggs now. I am not sure if they are unfertilized eggs that belong to the newborn winged alate, or if they are from her.

[nurbs]

The first F. subpolita worker eclosed. Notice how small she is. You can also see eggs now. I am not sure if they are from the alates or from her.

 

[Miles]

You should take the alates away. All they will do is beg for precious food resources that the colony can't afford to give away to noncontributing members.

[Crystals]

I agree with Miles, remove the alates, they are huge resource burdens.

 

I have occasionally seen something similar to this before, but it was with species known to raid other Formica, like Formica aserva and other Formica whose queens are temporary parasites.  They occasionally raid other nests and sometimes grab alate cocoons instead of worker cocoons.  The older workers usually kill the alates within 3 days.

[nurbs]

You should take the alates away. All they will do is beg for precious food resources that the colony can't afford to give away to noncontributing members.

 

I know. A lot easier said than done.

 

There were three alates, I have successfully removed one. Short of putting the test tube vertical, I've been gently using a straw to try and chase them out. The queen is quite aggressive and will attack the straw, while the alates will flee back towards the cotton. The water reservoir is only an inch, so they have a lot of room to move back into the tube.

[dspdrew]

How do you know for sure you grabbed cocoons from an F. ravida nest? Maybe it was F. aserva. They look a lot alike, and wouldn't they also make mounds?

 

Also, whenever I need to do surgery on a colony, I actually dump everything into a small container completely coated with Fluon. After I have done what needs to be done (taken brood, removed unwanted ants, etc.), I just quickly pour them right back into the test tube. If you have to, use a funnel (also coated in Fluon). I know some people will say it's going to stress them out, but lot's of things stress them out, including sticking something in the tube over and over trying to get an alate out. I think it's best just to get the job done, and get it done quickly.

[nurbs]

How do you know for sure you grabbed cocoons from an F. ravida nest? Maybe it was F. aserva. They look a lot alike, and wouldn't they also make mounds?

 

 

Yea, for sure it could have been F. aserva. The reason I keep thinking it was an F. ravida nest is because:

 

1) the workers were as large or larger than the F. aserva queen 

2) they were found at different areas and altitudes. The F. aserva alate I was found was wandering around other red and black Formica that were much smaller (which I assumed were the same species). When I found the F. ravida mound it was at the top of the hike and they were just noticeably larger and their gastor was also more plump. They were also very aggressive.

 

But yes, again, I could be wrong and F. aserva come in different sizes and that is what I grabbed. I was also thinking I grabbed from a larger Formica nest that raided an F. aserva nest? 

 

 

 

Also, whenever I need to do surgery on a colony, I actually dump everything into a small container completely coated with Fluon. After I have done what needs to be done (taken brood, removed unwanted ants, etc.), I just quickly pour them right back into the test tube. If you have to, use a funnel (also coated in Fluon). I know some people will say it's going to stress them out, but lot's of things stress them out, including sticking something in the tube over and over trying to get an alate out. I think it's best just to get the job done, and get it done quickly.

 

The alates will be removed eventually when everything ecloses. I'm just not in a rush to do so. I haven't done anything extreme for the exact reason you posted - no need to stress the queen out. These alates are only a few days old, and they are eventually going to be removed one way or another. There are some super small eggs in there and a small worker. I have no micro tweezers to safely handle those eggs. At this point I'm just not going "dump it all out" just to manually remove the alates because not all the cocoons have eclosed yet, and if there are more alates I will have to do it again. 

 

Here is a video. As you can see, there are some tiny eggs there. I don't own those micro tweezers which allow you to grab an egg without damaging them. In the past, I have used a damp qtip to grab small eggs - but, again, not in a rush to get these out.

 

As I said earlier, I've already taken one alate out. I'll continue to try and grab the rest manually without disturbing the test tube.

 

Edited by nurbs, July 17 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[nurbs]

Just checked on them, and another alate has eclosed. Looks like they are getting ready for this weekend's rains.

[Crystals]

I see.

I tend to use tweezers to grab the wings and pull them out, or feather weight foceps.

Formica tend to stress out pretty easily.  As long as you ensure the have enough food, I don't see too many issues with the alates in there.

[dspdrew]

Small eggs will stick to the tube a lot of times. Unless you needed to get to the eggs, if you dumped everything out, I would just leave them be.

[Huch]

You should take the alates away. All they will do is beg for precious food resources that the colony can't afford to give away to noncontributing members.

This is very true. I have lost 3 small colonies due to this.

[drtrmiller]

I would squish the alates so the remaining workers can feed off them.  They're full of nutrients.

[nurbs]

I would squish the alates so the remaining workers can feed off them.  They're full of nutrients.

 

Haha

[AntsAreUs]

Hey I just caught a queen as I want this species really bad ever since last year. I was wandering if I can keep her with another queen and that queen will have her workers then the F. aserva will kill her and raise her own colony? Or do I have to go find some pupa from a wild nest?

[nurbs]

Hey I just caught a queen as I want this species really bad ever since last year. I was wandering if I can keep her with another queen and that queen will have her workers then the F. aserva will kill her and raise her own colony? Or do I have to go find some pupa from a wild nest?

 

Is the other queen with the colony a Formica as well? I think all you need is to find other Formica pupae in the area and give them to her.

 

Where did you find her? I'd love to see pics.

Edited by nurbs, July 18 2015 - 1:21 PM.

[AntsAreUs]

 

Hey I just caught a queen as I want this species really bad ever since last year. I was wandering if I can keep her with another queen and that queen will have her workers then the F. aserva will kill her and raise her own colony? Or do I have to go find some pupa from a wild nest?

 

Is the other queen with the colony a Formica as well? I think all you need is to find other Formica pupae in the area and give them to her.

 

Where did you find her? I'd love to see pics.

 

I need to get new macro lens to take pictures but I just got 13 pupa from a wild F. subsericea colony and gave it to her should I feed her? Well actually I lost 5 pupa so only 8 now. She looks exactly like your queen so I assume she is F. aserva but from looking at similar species F. aserva looks closest to my queen.

Edited by Gaige Daughtrey, July 18 2015 - 1:59 PM.

[nurbs]

 

 

Hey I just caught a queen as I want this species really bad ever since last year. I was wandering if I can keep her with another queen and that queen will have her workers then the F. aserva will kill her and raise her own colony? Or do I have to go find some pupa from a wild nest?

 

Is the other queen with the colony a Formica as well? I think all you need is to find other Formica pupae in the area and give them to her.

 

Where did you find her? I'd love to see pics.

 

I need to get new macro lens to take pictures but I just got 13 pupa from a wild F. subsericea colony and gave it to her should I feed her? Well actually I lost 5 pupa so only 8 now. She looks exactly like your queen so I assume she is F. aserva but from looking at similar species F. aserva looks closest to my queen.

 

 

 

Yea those red/black Formica all look very similar until you get closeup detailed shots to see differences. I would put it up in the ID section with pics and get the experts on it. Trager ID'ed mine as F. aserva. How large are yours?

 

I've been feeding mine sugar and honey water and freeze dried insects.

 

Have you given her the pupae yet? Has she responded to them or has she ignored them?

[AntsAreUs]

She is about 7-8 millimeters but it was hard to measure her because she seen the ruler and starter to look at it. I have given her the pupa but I can't say if she responded or not because I just gave her them, she appears to be guarding them but I'm not completely sure.

[nurbs]

She is about 7-8 millimeters but it was hard to measure her because she seen the ruler and starter to look at it. I have given her the pupa but I can't say if she responded or not because I just gave her them, she appears to be guarding them but I'm not completely sure.

 

Does she pick them up and move them around when startled? Mine took to them immediately and you could tell she was very excited about them. If her response is not immediate she may not be parasitic. I can't say for sure because this is my first experience with them as well.