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Queen ants dead 2 - 3 days after collection
Started By
FelixTheAnter
, Jul 21 2021 12:53 AM
12 replies to this topic
#1 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 12:53 AM
I collected a bunch of queens 2 or 3 days ago after a small nuptial flight. The main flight still hasn't happened in my area, all the big nests still have queens and drones just inside the entrances.
I believe they are all Lasius Niger.
Most of them went into large test tubes, but 10 went into smaller test tubes, all without water since it was a quick grab-and-go opportunity. The next morning I put them in proper setups.
I am covering them with red foil. Many are still furiously pulling at their cotton, but many have given up and are just hanging out now. But this morning I noticed many have died - approximately 15 - 20% of them. A couple are still alive, but very weak. Strangely enough, most of the ones that died were in the smaller test tubes. But a couple in larger ones died as well. But I've never had issues with these tubes before, I have a thriving L. Niger colony that is using a bunch of them.
Any idea what could be going on here?
I believe they are all Lasius Niger.
Most of them went into large test tubes, but 10 went into smaller test tubes, all without water since it was a quick grab-and-go opportunity. The next morning I put them in proper setups.
I am covering them with red foil. Many are still furiously pulling at their cotton, but many have given up and are just hanging out now. But this morning I noticed many have died - approximately 15 - 20% of them. A couple are still alive, but very weak. Strangely enough, most of the ones that died were in the smaller test tubes. But a couple in larger ones died as well. But I've never had issues with these tubes before, I have a thriving L. Niger colony that is using a bunch of them.
Any idea what could be going on here?
#2 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:01 AM
#3 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:02 AM
Those aren't niger. Those are social parasites so they won't last without hosts
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Sent from my CPH2201 using Tapatalk
- Antkeeper01 likes this
Young ant keeper with a decent amount of knowledge on local ant species.
YouTube: https://m.youtube.co...uKsahGliSH7EqOQ (It's pretty dead. Might upload again soon, don't expect my voice to sound the same though.)
Currently kept ant species, favorites have a star in front of their names (NOT in alphabetical order, also may be outdated sometimes): ★ Camponotus irritans inferior, ★ Ooceraea biroi, Pheidole parva, ★ Nylanderia sp., ★ Paraparatrechina tapinomoides, Platythyrea sp., Anochetus sp., Colobopsis sp. (cylindrica group), ★ Crematogaster ferrarii, Polyrhachis (Myrma) cf. pruinosa, Polyrhachis (Cyrtomyrma) laevissima, Tapinoma sp. (formerly Zatapinoma)
Death count: Probably over a hundred individual queens and colonies by now. I cannot recall whatsoever.
YouTube: https://m.youtube.co...uKsahGliSH7EqOQ (It's pretty dead. Might upload again soon, don't expect my voice to sound the same though.)
Currently kept ant species, favorites have a star in front of their names (NOT in alphabetical order, also may be outdated sometimes): ★ Camponotus irritans inferior, ★ Ooceraea biroi, Pheidole parva, ★ Nylanderia sp., ★ Paraparatrechina tapinomoides, Platythyrea sp., Anochetus sp., Colobopsis sp. (cylindrica group), ★ Crematogaster ferrarii, Polyrhachis (Myrma) cf. pruinosa, Polyrhachis (Cyrtomyrma) laevissima, Tapinoma sp. (formerly Zatapinoma)
Death count: Probably over a hundred individual queens and colonies by now. I cannot recall whatsoever.
#4 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:03 AM
All of them? What species are they?
#5 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:05 AM
Sorry, realized I only posted 2 photos lol
Let me take a group photo
Let me take a group photo
#6 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:07 AM
I'm not sure but definitely some sorta lasius sp. They will need host workers and brood of lasius species. You should wait for a pro to ID before getting hosts.All of them? What species are they?
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- WSantkeeper likes this
Young ant keeper with a decent amount of knowledge on local ant species.
YouTube: https://m.youtube.co...uKsahGliSH7EqOQ (It's pretty dead. Might upload again soon, don't expect my voice to sound the same though.)
Currently kept ant species, favorites have a star in front of their names (NOT in alphabetical order, also may be outdated sometimes): ★ Camponotus irritans inferior, ★ Ooceraea biroi, Pheidole parva, ★ Nylanderia sp., ★ Paraparatrechina tapinomoides, Platythyrea sp., Anochetus sp., Colobopsis sp. (cylindrica group), ★ Crematogaster ferrarii, Polyrhachis (Myrma) cf. pruinosa, Polyrhachis (Cyrtomyrma) laevissima, Tapinoma sp. (formerly Zatapinoma)
Death count: Probably over a hundred individual queens and colonies by now. I cannot recall whatsoever.
YouTube: https://m.youtube.co...uKsahGliSH7EqOQ (It's pretty dead. Might upload again soon, don't expect my voice to sound the same though.)
Currently kept ant species, favorites have a star in front of their names (NOT in alphabetical order, also may be outdated sometimes): ★ Camponotus irritans inferior, ★ Ooceraea biroi, Pheidole parva, ★ Nylanderia sp., ★ Paraparatrechina tapinomoides, Platythyrea sp., Anochetus sp., Colobopsis sp. (cylindrica group), ★ Crematogaster ferrarii, Polyrhachis (Myrma) cf. pruinosa, Polyrhachis (Cyrtomyrma) laevissima, Tapinoma sp. (formerly Zatapinoma)
Death count: Probably over a hundred individual queens and colonies by now. I cannot recall whatsoever.
#7 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 1:10 AM
#8 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 2:28 AM
Parasites like those just have a relatively higher mortality rate. Colonies put many more of them in the hopes they will find hosts. A certain percent of those just day right off the bat.
- Antkeeper01 likes this
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.
#9 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 9:57 AM
Lasius umbratus queens. They will need lasius niger host workers, preferably callows. Parasite queens die quickly without hosts, which explains the sudden deaths.
Edited by Manitobant, July 21 2021 - 9:59 AM.
- Antkeeper01 likes this
My journals:
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
#10 Offline - Posted July 21 2021 - 10:03 AM
What was the giveaway that they aren't L Niger? They looked just like my L. Niger queen - but now that you mention they aren't, perhaps they are a bit too orange in color?
20210721_110628.jpg20210721_110624.jpg
Parasite queens are usually much slimmer than their fully claustral hosts, and have a very large head relative to body size. Once you have seen a few, it should be easy to tell if a queen is a social parasite, even if its a different genus like formica. (Don’t confuse semi claustral queens like myrmica for parasites though, even if they have the parasite look)
- TestSubjectOne, WSantkeeper and ANTS_KL like this
My journals:
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
#11 Offline - Posted July 22 2021 - 2:32 AM
Thank you all, this is super helpful information.
I gave all of the remaining queens a small drop of sugar water, which all of them immediately sniffed out and drank from. Only two more deaths overnight (compared to 8 the day before), so hopefully this will keep them alive until I've gotten workers for them.
I tried following multiple methods from the "Much Ado About the Founding of Lasius Parasites" (or whatever that pinned thread is called) to introduce established workers from deep in the nest - ones that were tending to brood. But all 3 attempts ended in dead queens. So, it seems callows is my only option.
Unfortunately with the way my Lasius nest is set up, callows are often difficult or impossible to reach. So I put about 10 workers and a bunch of pupae in a test tube with a tiny outworld, and hopefully that will do the trick.
I was also able to manually eclose a very dark pupae, and gave it to one of the queens yesterday. This morning it has started to wake up and the queen is gently licking and tending to it!
Now that you say this, I can clearly see it. Thank you for much for the information!!
I gave all of the remaining queens a small drop of sugar water, which all of them immediately sniffed out and drank from. Only two more deaths overnight (compared to 8 the day before), so hopefully this will keep them alive until I've gotten workers for them.
I tried following multiple methods from the "Much Ado About the Founding of Lasius Parasites" (or whatever that pinned thread is called) to introduce established workers from deep in the nest - ones that were tending to brood. But all 3 attempts ended in dead queens. So, it seems callows is my only option.
Unfortunately with the way my Lasius nest is set up, callows are often difficult or impossible to reach. So I put about 10 workers and a bunch of pupae in a test tube with a tiny outworld, and hopefully that will do the trick.
I was also able to manually eclose a very dark pupae, and gave it to one of the queens yesterday. This morning it has started to wake up and the queen is gently licking and tending to it!
What was the giveaway that they aren't L Niger? They looked just like my L. Niger queen - but now that you mention they aren't, perhaps they are a bit too orange in color?20210721_110628.jpg20210721_110624.jpg
Parasite queens are usually much slimmer than their fully claustral hosts, and have a very large head relative to body size. Once you have seen a few, it should be easy to tell if a queen is a social parasite, even if its a different genus like formica. (Don’t confuse semi claustral queens like myrmica for parasites though, even if they have the parasite look)
Now that you say this, I can clearly see it. Thank you for much for the information!!
#12 Offline - Posted July 22 2021 - 5:41 AM
Just get callows from wild colonies. Its how most people do it.
My journals:
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/
#13 Offline - Posted July 22 2021 - 5:30 PM
I'd love to do that, but I'm having a really hard time finding accessible wild colonies here. I live in the Netherlands, most of the colonies I find are nesting underneath pavers. And there's really nowhere I can overturn large rocks to look for colonies, because rocks just...don't naturally exist here. I've been checking under bark of rotting stumps and logs, but those are few and far between unfortunately.
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