10 replies to this topic

[Lessian]

Need some advice on how to get a queen to relocate when she really doesnt want to.  Twice this has happened and its putting a lot of stress on her as well as being ridiculously annoying.  She is still in her claustral tube after two months with nothing to show for it but brood that ends up dying or disappearing.  both times her tube ran out of water.  

 

The first time we tried to relocate her from her small plastic tube into a bigger glass tube with fresh cotton and plentiful water.  We did the usual thing where you cover the new tube and leave the old one exposed.  After several hours of the queen mucking around we eventually gave up and refilled her plastic test tube while she and her brood camped out in a spare length of plastic tubing.  She kept going to explore the new space but as soon as her feet touched the glass she would immediately run back to her eggs, so we figured she just didn't like the feel of the glass.  Unfortunately she ended up losing half her egg pile in the process.

 

The second time she got as far as having three very large pupae (but no eggs or larva) before she ran out of water again.  all three pupae have gradually disappeared and she now has only a tiny clump of eggs.  Knowing that she didn't like glass test tubes, we prepared a nice warm humid claustral chamber for her made from concrete sitting on a very gentle heating pad.  At least this time she would go inside and explore, but instead of moving in she dumped her rubbish in there and tried to block off the entry hole with cotton pulled from the water plug.  I tried to coax her in there with some sugar protein that I know she likes, but she still wouldn't move in.

 

My problem is that she can't stay where she is, but I can't get her to move into somewhere better.  I'm having to feed her sugar water laced with protein or she gets lethargic and very wobbly on her feet, her water keeps running out, and she is getting more and more stressed.  Every time I stick a needle into her tiny little space to give her food she freaks out, and it inevitably ends up full of cotton fibres.  usually once she realises that its a food offering she calms down, but in the meantime her stress levels are spiked.

 

anyone got any suggestions on what I can do to get her relocated without killing her?

[Serafine]

Carefully drill a small hole in her plastic tube so you can refill it with a small pipette. As long as the tube still has water seal the hole with a strap of tesa film.

 

Alternative1: Put the small test tube into a slightly larger test tube. That way you can change the larger test tubes so she still has water. Camponotus are fairly resistant to dryness, so as long as she can feed water to the larvae they shouldn't dry out.

 

Alternative2: Find some wild Camponotus colony and steal a pupa from it. A single worker can dramatically increase a queen's ability to raise brood.

Edited by Serafine, January 19 2017 - 1:59 AM.

[AntsMAN]

I use a skewer to to get at queens in test tubes. Just stick it in and let her grab hold, and the brood should stick to it if you touch them very gently and then tap them

into the new test tube.

[ParaStatic]

A damp Q-Tip used for removing eggs without damaging them is hand.  If it is vital that the queen move, a tip and a tap gets her out in a hurry.  After she is moved, get any brood that remains. 

[Mdrogun]

To start off, I am kind of worried about the health of your queen. I'm not sure if she will be able to raise workers based off of the fact that you are "having to feed her sugar water laced with protein or she gets lethargic and very wobbly on her feet".I don't know what species your queen is but I have raised countless Camponotus pennsylvanicus queens in glass test tubes. I really would try forcefully moving her into a glass test tube (20 x 150mm would probably work just fine) if necessary before you attempt to move her into some concrete thing. I'm assuming this queen is fully claustural. In the wild fully claustural queens and small colonies will not move under almost any circumstance. For a single queen or young colony to move nests it is almost guaranteed suicide. Your queen is not going to move on her own. It would also help if you could include some important details in this post like:

1. Where you're located

2. What species the queen is
3. How big the test tubes you're buying are

 

Of course pictures would also help but they're not needed.

 

Just an FYI: Unless you have a large colony there really is no way to get around disturbing them when you feed them. I wouldn't stress out about it so much.

Edited by Mdrogun, January 19 2017 - 6:41 PM.

[Serafine]

In the wild fully claustural queens and small colonies will not move under almost any circumstance. For a single queen or young colony to move nests it is almost guaranteed suicide. Your queen is not going to move on her own.

Um... I didn't have ANY issues moving my 4 worker Camponotus colony. I just put the smaller test tube into a larger (covered) test tube, put some light on it (72 watt daylight lamp) and the queen (plus the worker with the egg pile) immediately walked straight into the shade. I only had some problems with one worker that was walking back into the smaller tube twice when I wanted to take it away (but he seemed more as if he wanted to defend against a potential threat rather than actually settle back into the tube).
 

Just an FYI: Unless you have a large colony there really is no way to get around disturbing them when you feed them. I wouldn't stress out about it so much.

Just put the tube into a small outworld container and add a sugar water tube and a few fruit flies right in front of their door. Worked perfectly fine for my small Camponotus colony although they mostly foraged over night in the dark so you might not see them very often.

Edited by Serafine, January 19 2017 - 7:59 PM.

[Lessian]

To start off, I am kind of worried about the health of your queen. I'm not sure if she will be able to raise workers based off of the fact that you are "having to feed her sugar water laced with protein or she gets lethargic and very wobbly on her feet".I don't know what species your queen is but I have raised countless Camponotus pennsylvanicus queens in glass test tubes. I really would try forcefully moving her into a glass test tube (20 x 150mm would probably work just fine) if necessary before you attempt to move her into some concrete thing. I'm assuming this queen is fully claustural. In the wild fully claustural queens and small colonies will not move under almost any circumstance. For a single queen or young colony to move nests it is almost guaranteed suicide. Your queen is not going to move on her own. It would also help if you could include some important details in this post like:

1. Where you're located

2. What species the queen is
3. How big the test tubes you're buying are

 

Of course pictures would also help but they're not needed.

 

Just an FYI: Unless you have a large colony there really is no way to get around disturbing them when you feed them. I wouldn't stress out about it so much.

I stated in my original post that she has had several broods so far and each one has met with un/natural disaster.  having so much output with the only input being her own wing muscles, of course she is going to run out of energy reserves.  that's why I'm giving her sugar protein.  not because she is sick, but because she is starving.  She is starting to learn that the needle does not mean certain death, instead it means food, which is good.

I have read of enough people moving small colonies because of unusual circumstances.  I know that its usually not good, but I don't think its accurate to say that its suicide.  Also I had to move my Iridomyrmex girl and her small band of workers into a nest sooner than planned, because they were pulling at the water plug cotton threatening to flood themselves. They happily continue to explore and expand their reign.

We are in Brisbane Australia, its summer here so the girls are getting plenty of warmth. The concrete chamber I made her was warmed to a pleasant but not overly hot temperature and was suitably humidified with a section of wet sponge.

Not entirely sure what species of Camponotus she is, she is smooth shiny black all over and approx 12mm long.

[Lessian]

So it turns out that this post is a moot point now, the silly [censored] flooded her tube, killing her small bundle of eggs for the third time.  From the looks of it she kept pulling at the water plug cotton until it released too much water into the chamber section.
Knowing that she didn't like the concrete chamber or a glass tube, I set up a small modular nest that I had set aside for another queen.  Its the only thing I could find that would be even remotely suitable.  yes its a nest, but I figure that she can curl up in one of the smallest rooms.  

I left her rather soggy tube plugged into one of the nest ports so that she could move over in her own time.  Last I saw she was trying to recover and groom the wet brood.

Edited by dspdrew, May 9 2017 - 10:26 AM.
Removed profanity

[Serafine]

Ants can survive for surprisingly long times (hours, sometimes even days - eggs most likely longer than ants) under water so I wouldn't call the brood lost yet.

Edited by Serafine, January 20 2017 - 3:55 AM.

[Lessian]

Ants can survive for surprisingly long times (hours, sometimes even days - eggs most likely longer than ants) under water so I wouldn't call the brood lost

She spent a fair bit of time carefully examining and grooming the brood, so I'm assuming that any still viable eggs etc would have been taken with her.

[Alabama Anter]

Ants can survive for surprisingly long times (hours, sometimes even days - eggs most likely longer than ants) under water so I wouldn't call the brood lost yet.

Yeah I would wait it out. Solenopsis invicta with my experience seem dead but will be back alive in a few minutes