43 replies to this topic

[futurebird]

I just watched a fun video about "the most impossible to keep reptiles" and it was really interesting addressing how some species just need too much space, or special food and even zoos struggle to keep them. 
 
So what would that list be like for ants? Let's consider "successfully keeping" a generally humane life for the colony where they can grow large enough to make female alates. 
 
I'll give a go at it, but I know some of you will have some neat contributions:
 
  
1. Army Ants. A foraging species that lives in a bivocac, terrible stings and bites, insane numbers, and they need so much food. There was a Chinese youTuber who had a queen of the Asian army ant, she was huge, but apparently died without founding ... which makes the whole thing more sad than exciting. I guess you could "keep" these by owning a jungle. But I don't think that counts. 
 
2. Pseudomyrmex ferruginea lives in the acacia tree and growing a whole tree for you ants sounds like a lot of work. I don't know if they can live without the tree, but that seems cruel to me. 

 

What would you put on this list?

[Manitobant]

Besides the obvious army ants, i have a few:

1. Subfamily proceratiinae, which need super high humidity and only eat spider eggs, something most antkeepers cannot obtain in large quantities.

2. Melissotarsus, which only nest in live trees and exclusively tend scale insects.

[SYUTEO]

I'm going to say Acropyga because similar to what Manitobant said about Melissotarsus, Acropyga ants tend to root aphids for honeydew as their main source of food. And Allomerus because they make traps on extremely spiky plants to catch prey.

[Manitobant]

I'm going to say Acropyga because similar to what Manitobant said about Melissotarsus, Acropyga ants tend to root aphids for honeydew as their main source of food. And Allomerus because they make traps on extremely spiky plants to catch prey.

acropyga can be kept in a dirt setup with plants for their aphids I'm pretty sure. Also the allomerus and the pseudomyrmex OP mentioned would probably do fine outside of their plant, as other genera like azteca or philidris do well in artificial nests.

[TennesseeAnts]

I would have to add Atta cephalotes to this for the sole reason of having absolutely massive colonies, numbering in the millions. They are impossible to contain long term unless you have a full entomology lab where you can keep such a huge setup, and keep up with their insane demands for food. 

[Manitobant]

I would have to add Atta cephalotes to this for the sole reason of having absolutely massive colonies, numbering in the millions. They are impossible to contain long term unless you have a full entomology lab where you can keep such a huge setup, and keep up with their insane demands for food.

fungus growers are super easy to limit growth though. Cheeto has done it. Most captive colonies don’t get that big for this reason.

[TennesseeAnts]

 

I would have to add Atta cephalotes to this for the sole reason of having absolutely massive colonies, numbering in the millions. They are impossible to contain long term unless you have a full entomology lab where you can keep such a huge setup, and keep up with their insane demands for food.

fungus growers are super easy to limit growth though. Cheeto has done it. Most captive colonies don’t get that big for this reason.

 

I mean its impossible to keep a mature colony. Not the stunted colonies that we keep.

[CheetoLord02]

Azteca should be on this list, at least the species that are associated with Cecropia trees. You'd basically have to keep a whole tree just to keep the ants with it. And Azteca colonies get massive; probably on-par with or larger than Liometopum.

[futurebird]

 

I'm going to say Acropyga because similar to what Manitobant said about Melissotarsus, Acropyga ants tend to root aphids for honeydew as their main source of food. And Allomerus because they make traps on extremely spiky plants to catch prey.

acropyga can be kept in a dirt setup with plants for their aphids I'm pretty sure. Also the allomerus and the pseudomyrmex OP mentioned would probably do fine outside of their plant, as other genera like azteca or philidris do well in artificial nests.

 

 
Wow acropyga are now my new obsession. This video about them is so good. 

 
Acropyga, lives underground their whole lives and farms mealybugs to survive. That's interesting but lots of ants farm other insects for honeydew--
 
What makes this incredible is that when the queens of acropyga leave to mate and start new colonies they *select* a single mealybug to take with them to start their new colony.
This means ants invented a kind of unconscious selective breeding.
 
 
 
Think about the evolutionary pressures! The mealybugs are going to evolve to be the most "selectable" ... the queens will evolve better selection skills.
This has gone on so long neither the ants nor their herds can live on their own anymore.
 
But, to be an ant colony that never needs to risk going above ground for food... never revealing the location of your colony ... that's a huge advantage!
I wonder what other hidden ants remain still undiscovered?
 
John LaPolla shows in the video how this has been going on for TWENTY MILLION years!

Edited by futurebird, July 18 2021 - 1:07 PM.

[Manitobant]

Before anyone wrongly says it, I'm going to mention an ant that is commonly thought of as being impossible but actually isn’t: slave-makers, in particular the genus polyergus. These ants are considered “impossible” by some keepers because of their raiding requirements. They need lots of formica pupae to maintain and need to raid quite often. However, while these ants certainly aren’t for beginners, they are far from impossible to keep. I and many others have successfully done it, and i have heard of european keepers raising them to alates.

[SYUTEO]

 

I'm going to say Acropyga because similar to what Manitobant said about Melissotarsus, Acropyga ants tend to root aphids for honeydew as their main source of food. And Allomerus because they make traps on extremely spiky plants to catch prey.

acropyga can be kept in a dirt setup with plants for their aphids I'm pretty sure. Also the allomerus and the pseudomyrmex OP mentioned would probably do fine outside of their plant, as other genera like azteca or philidris do well in artificial nests.

 

I see, so it IS possible to keep them.

[futurebird]

Before anyone wrongly says it, I'm going to mention an ant that is commonly thought of as being impossible but actually isn’t: slave-makers, in particular the genus polyergus. These ants are considered “impossible” by some keepers because of their raiding requirements. They need lots of formica pupae to maintain and need to raid quite often. However, while these ants certainly aren’t for beginners, they are far from impossible to keep. I and many others have successfully done it, and i have heard of european keepers raising them to alates.

 

 

What about the ants that live with other ants, but without them noticing? Anyone know which ones I mean?

[ANTdrew]

Sounds like you mean the Solenopsis thief ants?

[Manitobant]

Before anyone wrongly says it, I'm going to mention an ant that is commonly thought of as being impossible but actually isn’t: slave-makers, in particular the genus polyergus. These ants are considered “impossible” by some keepers because of their raiding requirements. They need lots of formica pupae to maintain and need to raid quite often. However, while these ants certainly aren’t for beginners, they are far from impossible to keep. I and many others have successfully done it, and i have heard of european keepers raising them to alates.

 
 
What about the ants that live with other ants, but without them noticing? Anyone know which ones I mean?

formicoxenus?

[futurebird]

 

 

Before anyone wrongly says it, I'm going to mention an ant that is commonly thought of as being impossible but actually isn’t: slave-makers, in particular the genus polyergus. These ants are considered “impossible” by some keepers because of their raiding requirements. They need lots of formica pupae to maintain and need to raid quite often. However, while these ants certainly aren’t for beginners, they are far from impossible to keep. I and many others have successfully done it, and i have heard of european keepers raising them to alates.

 
 
What about the ants that live with other ants, but without them noticing? Anyone know which ones I mean?

formicoxenus?

 

 That's the one! The "guest ant" I wonder if one can keep them as they live in nature... in one of your other colonies... 

[Manitobant]

You could probably do it in some kind of naturalistic setup or a specialized formicarium with a separate nesting area for the parasite (they nest separately but forage in the nest of the host)

[SYUTEO]

Maybe unless you have a millipede farm, Plectroctena would be extremely hard (or even impossible) to keep.

[PurdueEntomology]

Discothyrea testacea, as their food requirements are not really known.  I have tried spider eggs of various species which were not accepted.  I now believe they are feeding on either centipede or millipede eggs, at least from the food-eggs I have observed associated with the colonies I have found.  I have found Proceratium spp. not too difficult if one uses the common house spider as an egg source.   Neivamyrmex spp. are on my list, not so much with the issue of feeding them but parasitic mites. I currently have a colony that is in its second round of brood and have a nice batch of callows going.  I have switched to keeping them in a deep large container with much fresh sterile soil and this seems acceptable and no mites as far as I can tell.  I will switch them to a fresh container soon. The down side is I know they are there but not seen as the deep soil confirms their hypogeic life style.  Of course still having a food source is paramount so S. invicta as before. 

[futurebird]

 

I know I'm a weirdo but I can't stop thinking about how awkward this must be for the mealy bug. 

[Kaelwizard]

Azteca should be on this list, at least the species that are associated with Cecropia trees. You'd basically have to keep a whole tree just to keep the ants with it. And Azteca colonies get massive; probably on-par with or larger than Liometopum.

For some reason I think Azteca alfari are really cool.