25 replies to this topic

[ArmyAntz]

Found near Miami Florida yesterday. There's about five eggs already.

 

I know they're Pheidole but was wondering if I could get an exact ID with these photos, and whether they're polygynous or not? If not then I'll move them to separate test-tube setups.

 

I probably won't be able to get better photos unfortunately, this phone camera is the best I have.

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[NickAnter]

Looks like it to me.

[ArmyAntz]

Looks like it to me.

Thanks, so just to confirm I shouldn't have problems with keeping them all together?

[NickAnter]

No, you shouldn't have any problems. This species is known to have issues when founded with just queens, such as just not producing, or producing alates--just be warned.

[ArmyAntz]

What do you mean, like they're usually taken into mature colonies? Hopefully I have no issues but I'll see how it goes.

[NickAnter]

https://www.formicul...rnal#entry48383

 

Yes, from what I understand, this species usually expands by budding, or the queens enter new nests. This is not to say it isn't possible, it most likely is, but all successful Ph. megacephala Journals I have see invovled taking a small portion of the colony, that has queens, and maybe adding more.

[ArmyAntz]

A little discouraging but interesting, I guess theoretically I could add as many queens to them if they are successful.

I don't think this is the budding type though, I found them after a big nuptial flight and didn't see any colonies nearby. I could be wrong though. 

[BADANT]

In a case like this, could he go back to where he caught them, identify a nest of that species and gather some workers. Or do the queens have to be added to an existing colony?
I’ll read the journals later, just looking for a an answer while I am out of the house for awhile.


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[Manitobant]

If they flew in a nuptial flight i see no reason why they can’t found by themselves.

[NickAnter]

Yeah, I'm not too well versed in their biology, and it could well vary based upon geography.

[Otter]

This is absolutely not pheidole megacephala. Judging on the looks of these queens, they are probably an asian species maybe indica. This is in no way an accurate ID, its just a general shape I've noticed asian pheidole species. 

[Aaron567]

I don't think this is P. megacephala. Weirdly enough it looks like it could be something completely new to Florida; notice how the heads of these queens are proportionately larger than the heads of P. megacephala and the posterior margin of the head (the back edge of the head) is extremely concaved whereas in megacephala it's more of a straight or very slightly concave line. I'm pretty sure there is no Pheidole known from Florida that looks like this.

 

Here's a comparison with the typical megacephala that is found throughout the urban parts of Florida's peninsula.

 

Hopefully someone can confirm my suspicion so that I know I'm not going crazy. If this turns out to be something new then it would be the second new Pheidole introduction discovered in only a few months, and coincidentally also in Miami. To be clear, this would be a new exotic species, not a new native species. I see your location says Oklahoma, so I assume you're just visiting Miami? Do you have any plans on what you're going to do with these queens? Also, how many millimeters long are they?

[Manitobant]

I don't think this is P. megacephala. Weirdly enough it looks like it could be something completely new to Florida; notice how the heads of these queens are proportionately larger than the heads of P. megacephala and the posterior margin of the head (the back edge of the head) is extremely concaved whereas in megacephala it's more of a straight or very slightly concave line. I'm pretty sure there is no Pheidole known from Florida that looks like this.
 
Here's a comparison with the typical megacephala that is found throughout the urban parts of Florida's peninsula.


 
Hopefully someone can confirm my suspicion so that I know I'm not going crazy. If this turns out to be something new then it would be the second new Pheidole introduction discovered in only a few months, and coincidentally also in Miami. To be clear, this would be a new exotic species, not a new native species. I see your location says Oklahoma, so I assume you're just visiting Miami? Do you have any plans on what you're going to do with these queens? Also, how many millimeters long are they?

could it be pheidole indica? They’re an invasive recorded in the Caribbean, and Caribbean species have found their way to florida, like plagiolepis alluaudi. They’re also polygynous and the concave head seems present in them. also, i would encourage OP to kill one of the queens and preserve it, maybe send it to the university of florida ant lab.

Edited by Manitobant, February 19 2021 - 3:01 PM.

[Manitobant]

pheidole indica queens. they look strikingly similar.

 

[Aaron567]

 

 

could it be pheidole indica? They’re an invasive recorded in the Caribbean, and Caribbean species have found their way to florida, like plagiolepis alluaudi. They’re also polygynous and the concave head seems present in them. also, i would encourage OP to kill one of the queens and preserve it, maybe send it to the university of florida ant lab.

 

P. indica is the first thing that came to my mind. One could probably expect indica to show up in Florida any year now given their current status in many Caribbean islands, so it wouldn't be surprising. I agree that the best thing to do would be to get it identified and documented by experts but would be even better to raise them to workers to have that caste as well. A queen of an unknown small Pheidole species was found in Miami a few months ago and we got the person to send the queen in to have it identified, they emailed back saying they can't ID the species without major workers.

 

So, in the event that OP isn't bringing them back to Oklahoma, maybe these live queens could be sent to a Floridian for them to get them to rear major workers?

Edited by Aaron567, February 19 2021 - 4:52 PM.

[AnthonyP163]

Yes. If they are new to the state, I would suggest that, in the event of a queen (or worker, later on) death, that you preserve a specimen and/or send some specimens into a lab or database. This could be a very important first sighting if there truly is a new population of an invasive species.

[NickAnter]

Ph. indica could be a possibility. They are recorded in Cali, so I would assume they would have no problem invading Florida.

[TennesseeAnts]

I also agree with Ph. indica. I knew there was something wrong, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I'm not great with Asian Pheidole, lol.

[ArmyAntz]

I don't think this is P. megacephala. Weirdly enough it looks like it could be something completely new to Florida; notice how the heads of these queens are proportionately larger than the heads of P. megacephala and the posterior margin of the head (the back edge of the head) is extremely concaved whereas in megacephala it's more of a straight or very slightly concave line. I'm pretty sure there is no Pheidole known from Florida that looks like this.

 

Here's a comparison with the typical megacephala that is found throughout the urban parts of Florida's peninsula.

 

Hopefully someone can confirm my suspicion so that I know I'm not going crazy. If this turns out to be something new then it would be the second new Pheidole introduction discovered in only a few months, and coincidentally also in Miami. To be clear, this would be a new exotic species, not a new native species. I see your location says Oklahoma, so I assume you're just visiting Miami? Do you have any plans on what you're going to do with these queens? Also, how many millimeters long are they?

Wow I wasn't expecting that haha. I don't have a way of accurately measuring them sadly, right now I'd guess maybe 6 - 8 mm, but I'll try to get a better measurement tomorrow when I have the time. And yes I was visiting Florida to escape the huge freeze over we had last week, but I'm not there anymore so I can't go back to the place I caught them, although I could try finding it on a map if that's any use.

 

If a major worker sample is needed to identify them, I think it would make the most sense to raise them until there are workers and majors, (or just workers) then I could send the whole colony to someone to identify them. I probably won't end up keeping them for a long time anyway, but I think it'd be a shame to have to kill them.

 

Right now I'm keeping them at 82 degrees, and they each have their own little cluster of eggs. Hopefully that's a sign they're all fertile.

Edited by ArmyAntz, February 19 2021 - 8:04 PM.

[Aaron567]

 

 

Wow I wasn't expecting that haha. I don't have a way of accurately measuring them sadly, right now I'd guess maybe 6 - 8 mm, but I'll try to get a better measurement tomorrow when I have the time. And yes I was visiting Florida to escape the huge freeze over we had last week, but I'm not there anymore so I can't go back to the place I caught them, although I could try finding it on a map if that's any use.

 

If a major worker sample is needed to identify them, I think it would make the most sense to raise them until there are workers and majors, (or just workers) then I could send the whole colony to someone to identify them. I probably won't end up keeping them for a long time anyway, but I think it'd be a shame to have to kill them.

 

Right now I'm keeping them at 82 degrees, and they each have their own little cluster of eggs. Hopefully that's a sign they're all fertile.

 

Knowing their approximate location of collection would help a lot.