33 replies to this topic

[Antkeeper01]

it is harder when its concrete i havent figured out a way to kill tetra colonies i will try to hot glue nest entrances

[ANTdrew]

it is harder when its concrete i havent figured out a way to kill tetra colonies i will try to hot glue nest entrances

Creating and preserving robust native plant communities will be the best way to help native ants in your area. I can tell from personal experience in my own garden that as I have increased native plant diversity, Tetramorium populations have diminished, while natives have increased. If you plant it, they will come.

[Barristan]

There are other larger problems than some ant keepers collecting queens (and even digging them out):

• Destruction of their habitat
• Pesticides

Even if a queen already made a founding chamber that doesn't mean she is safe it is more likely that the small colony will be wiped out by larger colonies nearby. So by collecting, for example, a larger nearby colony you'd even increase the chances of the successful establishment of new colonies.
 
Common species produce queens in the billions or trillions depending on how large the area is.

Edited by Barristan, February 5 2021 - 8:00 PM.

[UtahAnts]

I feel like this is circular logic. Either you are against removing mature colonies, which produce alates, or you are all for removing established colonies and therefore removing the main predator of the alates. Of course there are other views to the topic, it's interesting to see other keepers perspectives.

-Thanks for your thoughts and knowledgeable input.

Edited by AntsUtah, February 5 2021 - 9:10 PM.

[DDD101DDD]

In my opinion removing an established colony would provide more opportunities for new alates in an area, however it also removes a source of alates. The colony that survived to grow into an established colony might have had reproductives with better genes then the newer colony, as they founded there without the aid of humans(the aid of humans being the removal of a competing colony). Maybe the removal of the colony that produced alates with better genes could impact how well colonies of that species do in the wild, if repeated over time, or the removal could actually help invasives gain a foothold if the mature colony was removed in an area with many invasives.

 

This is just me guessing though, I haven't done any research into this.

[Spazmops]

I agree with Cheeto, but all in gunna say is this:

Way I see it, the natural world will survive whatever we do to it. So if I am walking through the woods, flipping rocks and find a rare, desirable ant that I have looked for for years (take Stigmatomma trigonagnathum for example), you can bet that colony's coming home in my anting bag. Sure, enjoy the natives you have around you, but don't fret over something that will take hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years to happen.

The natural world as a whole, yes. It’s very unlikely antkeepers alone could cause an entire species to go extinct. But that doesn’t mean we should throw responsibility out the window, seeing as even a local decrease in population could throw the ecosystem out of balance. I also think that your timeline is extremely optimistic, seeing as civilization has only been around 6,000 years and since the 16th century alone we’ve driven at least 680 vertebrate species to extinction. 

[Vendayn]

I'm pretty sure construction, landscaping and destruction of earth's land through the former and all the pesticides, agriculture chemical use and pollution have a bigger effect than all ant keepers combined getting ants. Even if all ant keepers combined (including ALL of antscanada fan base whether they keep ants or not) went out for a year every day all day digging up ant colonies...the formers would all be far more devastating on the local NATIVE wildlife. The formers would highly benefit however the exotic wildlife.

 

For example in the landscaping thing. The invasive ants would all but pretty much die out if there was no landscaping in southern california (outside areas with permanent water, which isn't much). And sadly one person or two people or even three people living next to each other, planting a tiny bit of native stuff in their yard/backyard isn't going to do anything. And just the one occasional person doing it is like dust in the wind. It would take a whole neighborhood to make a difference. Planting native stuff to bring back native wildlife is like putting one or two sandbags to stop a wall of water hitting your neighborhood, doesn't really do anything. It would do something if there was a whole combined force of the neighborhood each with sandbags to make a difference. Well. unless you are rich and have a huge property with no (close) neighbors or you live on a ranch or farm or something. But that is different.

 

Either way, pesticides, fertilizers, destruction, construction and landscaping are the actual problems. Ant keepers getting ants is like picking up a grain of sand at the beach in comparison.

Edited by Vendayn, February 6 2021 - 11:21 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

I'm pretty sure construction, landscaping and destruction of earth's land through the former and all the pesticides, agriculture chemical use and pollution have a bigger effect than all ant keepers combined getting ants. Even if all ant keepers combined (including ALL of antscanada fan base whether they keep ants or not) went out for a year every day all day digging up ant colonies...the formers would all be far more devastating on the local NATIVE wildlife. The formers would highly benefit however the exotic wildlife.

 

For example in the landscaping thing. The invasive ants would all but pretty much die out if there was no landscaping in southern california (outside areas with permanent water, which isn't much). And sadly one person or two people or even three people living next to each other, planting a tiny bit of native stuff in their yard/backyard isn't going to do anything. And just the one occasional person doing it is like dust in the wind. It would take a whole neighborhood to make a difference. Planting native stuff to bring back native wildlife is like putting one or two sandbags to stop a wall of water hitting your neighborhood, doesn't really do anything. It would do something if there was a whole combined force of the neighborhood each with sandbags to make a difference. Well. unless you are rich and have a huge property with no (close) neighbors or you live on a ranch or farm or something. But that is different.

 

Either way, pesticides, fertilizers, destruction, construction and landscaping are the actual problems. Ant keepers getting ants is like picking up a grain of sand at the beach in comparison.

 

I'm pretty sure construction, landscaping and destruction of earth's land through the former and all the pesticides, agriculture chemical use and pollution have a bigger effect than all ant keepers combined getting ants. Even if all ant keepers combined (including ALL of antscanada fan base whether they keep ants or not) went out for a year every day all day digging up ant colonies...the formers would all be far more devastating on the local NATIVE wildlife. The formers would highly benefit however the exotic wildlife.

 

For example in the landscaping thing. The invasive ants would all but pretty much die out if there was no landscaping in southern california (outside areas with permanent water, which isn't much). And sadly one person or two people or even three people living next to each other, planting a tiny bit of native stuff in their yard/backyard isn't going to do anything. And just the one occasional person doing it is like dust in the wind. It would take a whole neighborhood to make a difference. Planting native stuff to bring back native wildlife is like putting one or two sandbags to stop a wall of water hitting your neighborhood, doesn't really do anything. It would do something if there was a whole combined force of the neighborhood each with sandbags to make a difference. Well. unless you are rich and have a huge property with no (close) neighbors or you live on a ranch or farm or something. But that is different.

 

Either way, pesticides, fertilizers, destruction, construction and landscaping are the actual problems. Ant keepers getting ants is like picking up a grain of sand at the beach in comparison.

This, is the most accurate I have seen so far.

 

But also, keep in mind that big cities full of exotics make up a pretty small percentage of our landmass. The rural areas are good and healthy as far as I've seen (unless you have a high concentration of Brachyponera chinensis, which I'm lucky enough to only have a few dozen colonies).

[ANTdrew]

I refute the idea that you need to plant a whole neighborhood with natives to make a difference. That all or nothing pessimism isn’t going to fix any problems. The key is getting the word out and getting momentum going for folks to go native. That’s why I harp on it all the time on here.
Also, it’s not just about planting, even more important is preserving native plant communities that already exist. What this means in my area is going out and pulling up noxious invasive plants. Volunteering for events like that would be a much better use of time than running around with hot glue guns or boiling water.

Edited by ANTdrew, February 6 2021 - 1:54 PM.

[Vendayn]

I refute the idea that you need to plant a whole neighborhood with natives to make a difference. That all or nothing pessimism isn’t going to fix any problems. The key is getting the word out and getting momentum going for folks to go native. That’s why I harp on it all the time on here.
Also, it’s not just about planting, even more important is preserving native plant communities that already exist. What this means in my area is going out and pulling up noxious invasive plants. Volunteering for events like that would be a much better use of time than running around with hot glue guns or boiling water.

I can see that.

 

Then the problem more so is because in a lot of places in orange county (california), apartments or housing neighborhoods, you get fined for planting anything that isn't in their rule book. Literally they will call the police on you (they will call the police for much smaller things) if you continually plant anything that isn't pre-approved. Most of the time you can't plant anything at all. And these apartments and home owners association places definitely hate native plants around here. Also if you pull out invasive weeds, or dig a tiny tiny tiny hole in the soil they will call the police to and threaten to do so that you are damaging property. And how do I know? First hand experience at being threatened by them, and they are big enough that they probably have judges in their pocket so they'd get a friendly judge on their side.

 

Plus my parents friends from china lived in a housing community (orange county still) where it was home owners association, and all they could plant was non-native exotic plants. They put a plant in that wasn't approved and the police showed up...granted they didn't respond to the home owners association and ignored it (until the police showed up then they had to destroy the plant)...but still...

Edited by Vendayn, February 6 2021 - 7:31 PM.

[Manitobant]

Personally, I don’t think antkeepers have much of an impact on ant populations, and ill give an example of this fact: the chinese ant market. The chinese market is where a lot of the asian ants antkeepers get come from, and most of the colonies sold there are dug up. Stuff like harpegnathos venator, cerapachys sulcinodis and even carebara diversa are collected by the hundreds and sold to antkeepers in china and around the world, and yet there has never been a decline in the ant populations. Even army ants like aenictus are collected, albiet in lesser numbers, and nothing has happened to the local ant fauna. The real threat to ants is habitat loss and invasives, which kill more ants than all antkeepers combined.

Edited by Manitobant, February 8 2021 - 10:12 AM.

[Kaelwizard]

Personally, I don’t think antkeepers have much of an impact on ant populations, and ill give an example of this fact: the chinese ant market. The chinese market is where a lot of the asian ants antkeepers get come from, and most of the colonies sold there are dug up. Stuff like harpegnathos venator, cerapachys sulcinodis and even carebara diversa are collected by the hundreds and sold to antkeepers in china and around the world, and yet there has never been a decline in the ant populations. Even army ants like aenictus are collected, albiet in lesser numbers, and nothing has happened to the local ant fauna. The real threat to ants is habitat loss and invasives, which kill more ants than all antkeepers combined.

Quick question - How do you know they are doing that? It's not like you purchase from them.

[Manitobant]

Personally, I don’t think antkeepers have much of an impact on ant populations, and ill give an example of this fact: the chinese ant market. The chinese market is where a lot of the asian ants antkeepers get come from, and most of the colonies sold there are dug up. Stuff like harpegnathos venator, cerapachys sulcinodis and even carebara diversa are collected by the hundreds and sold to antkeepers in china and around the world, and yet there has never been a decline in the ant populations. Even army ants like aenictus are collected, albiet in lesser numbers, and nothing has happened to the local ant fauna. The real threat to ants is habitat loss and invasives, which kill more ants than all antkeepers combined.

Quick question - How do you know they are doing that? It's not like you purchase from them.

I’ve heard from friends in china or who buy lots from asia. Do you really think people raise up hundreds of carebara and harpegnathos and then sell them for super cheap? Also some of the species they sell, like cerapachys sulcinodis and diacamma rugosum are hard or impossible to found in captivity.

[MysticNanitic]

I don’t think one can say there hasn’t been a decline in the species they’re digging up (in fact you can say -1 at a minimum!). At what point were too many Dodo birds killed?