28 replies to this topic

[drtrmiller]

Follow @byformica on Twitter

 

Edited by drtrmiller, May 19 2015 - 7:20 PM.

[BugFinder]

Maybe you'll get an answer from him...  I won't hold my breath.

Edited by BugFinder, May 19 2015 - 7:48 PM.

[Ants4fun]

If he did, would that affect the copyright he has on it?

[drtrmiller]

Haha.  No.

 

Literally TONS of companies that make things allow developers at least partial access to be able to make enhancements to their products.  The Apple App Store wouldn't exist without Apple's SDK (Software Development Kit), with comparable tools for hardware makers.

 

All I'm asking Mikey is for some technical drawings for things like the connector, so that I can make, for example, a foraging area adapter, since his new formicarium lacks a foraging area completely.

 

Whomever makes a thing is the owner of that thing.  Mikey made his little nest, so he is the owner of it.  He can choose to license access, or provide it free to developers such as myself, so that I can make improvements and enhancement complimentary products to go alongside his own.

[Tspivey16]

Weird- I thought it was advertised as connecting to standard tubing and test tubes.

 

I could see the viewpoint of hesitation, especially if a company has it's own future plans for add on to its products. I wouldn't want to give up that market share in such a specialized industry.

[BugFinder]

Weird- I thought it was advertised as connecting to standard tubing and test tubes.

 

I could see the viewpoint of hesitation, especially if a company has it's own future plans for add on to its products. I wouldn't want to give up that market share in such a specialized industry.

 

Some look at it that way, but like Apple learned, you can often earn much more profit by busting down the "walled garden" and allowing others to create products that compliment yours, which often helps drive sales of your products.

[Tspivey16]

 

Weird- I thought it was advertised as connecting to standard tubing and test tubes.

 

I could see the viewpoint of hesitation, especially if a company has it's own future plans for add on to its products. I wouldn't want to give up that market share in such a specialized industry.

 

Some look at it that way, but like Apple learned, you can often earn much more profit by busting down the "walled garden" and allowing others to create products that compliment yours, which often helps drive sales of your products.

 

The problem with that comparison is the volume of users of the product (i.e. computers, smart phones, etc.) vs the volume of users of such a specialized industry such as ant keeping where market share can be everything - especially if AC wants to develop their own add on features.

Edited by Tspivey16, May 20 2015 - 8:33 AM.

[drtrmiller]

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

[Tspivey16]

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

 

True- Cooperation being the key. And reputation of a company proceeds cooperation with that company. Especially when their business interactions could become so public

[Miles]

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

The only prohibition they can give is to express that they do not endorse consumer-made or third-party developer products. I would personally consider it disrespectful if you or anyone else was to go ahead and develop add-ons to this AC product if they (AC) are not consenting to that development.

[AntTeen804]

Weird- I thought it was advertised as connecting to standard tubing and test tubes.
 
I could see the viewpoint of hesitation, especially if a company has it's own future plans for add on to its products. I wouldn't want to give up that market share in such a specialized industry.

 
Some look at it that way, but like Apple learned, you can often earn much more profit by busting down the "walled garden" and allowing others to create products that compliment yours, which often helps drive sales of your products.

I never thought of that. It's pretty smart.

[Tspivey16]

Although this was sent to me in email- I think this kind of nasty messaging from someone seeking business needs to be in public.

 

Moderators- please let me know if you feel I am off key, but I think my response is on point.

 

[Removed due to DMCA Takedown notice]

 

My response:

 

You seem to be off on multiple fronts here:

 

1.) In my post I was actually bringing a viewpoint in favor of Ants Canada- so that does not fit with your narrative with me and THA.

2.) I have received several support emails from members of this forum

3.) If this forum is only meant for Pro byFormica views, then it is not all inclusive of the ant community.

4. Your attitude which is continued in this email to me, reflects poorly on your business - which is also conveyed to me by several members.

5. You should be able to answer challenges to a viewpoint, if you are putting viewpoints out there. If you only want yes men on this forum, then I need to verify with the forum owners what this forum is all about.

Edited by dspdrew, May 20 2015 - 8:41 PM.

[BugFinder]

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

 

 

if he obtained a patent for the connection ports he probably could.

[BugFinder]

 

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

The only prohibition they can give is to express that they do not endorse consumer-made or third-party developer products. I would personally consider it disrespectful if you or anyone else was to go ahead and develop add-ons to this AC product if they (AC) are not consenting to that development.

 

 

Disrespectful?  Hell I'm of a mind to pay byformica or THA to do just that.  No one in this business has treated me as poorly, or as "disrespectfully" as AC has.

[drtrmiller]

 

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

 

 

if he obtained a patent for the connection ports he probably could.

 

 

He could what?

 

Assume you have a patented hole.  Your patent covers the hole.

 

If another party makes a plug for the hole, that is their work, and is not within the purview of your patent protection.

[BugFinder]

 

 

The only difference at issue here, is whether the company hands over the drawings, or I have to lay down $75.00 to buy one of the products and reverse engineer it myself.

 

No company can compel another to cease developing or selling products that complement their own—it's simply a question how AntsCanada chooses to cooperate and take advantage of the opportunity I and other developers offer.  If I don't get the plans, then I'll probably still develop things for it—it just makes it slightly more difficult to do so.

 

 

if he obtained a patent for the connection ports he probably could.

 

 

He could what?

 

Assume you have a patented hole.  Your patent covers the hole.

 

If another party makes a plug for the hole, that is their work, and is not within the purview of your patent protection.

 

I think it would depend on the connection port.  Although I'm not an engineer and would likely not be capable of doing it, I can conceive it could be possible to create a connection port that has a unique male/female connection, and to connect to it, you would need to connect a piece that matches it.  If you designed such a connection port, you could probably protect it using the patent system.  Although I acknowledge I could be wrong about any or all of that.

 

I'm sure if someone created such a port, someone else could cut if off and drill a hole, and connect something anyway, but we're not really talking about what hobbyists might do to it after getting it home, we're talking about what other businesses are allowed to manufacture and sell.

[Pulliamj]

Is this thing really that special? a formicarium or waterer I can see but an adapter. Is this so revolutionary to warrant a patent in the first place. Patents can cost around $10,000 I doubt people patent such trivial things.

[BugFinder]

 

Although this was sent to me in email- I think this kind of nasty messaging from someone seeking business needs to be in public.

 

 

 

 

I have been a customer of THA, BF, and CA.  In the interest of disclosure, I'll tell you I have spent alot at THA, some at BF, and very little at AC.  With that out of the way I'd like to tell you that I have been treated very well by THA and BF.  While Terry can be a little rough around the edges sometimes, I think it's just his personality.  You can choose to be offended, or you can choose not to be.  Your back and forth with him isn't going to discourage me from doing business with him.  I doubt it'll discourage very many of his other customers either.  

 

If I were a betting man, I would bet that the support emails you mention came from people who almost exclusively do business with one of the other two companies, not from people who regularly do business with BF.

Is this thing really that special? a formicarium or waterer I can see but an adapter. Is this so revolutionary to warrant a patent in the first place. Patents can cost around $10,000 I doubt people patent such trivial things.

 

That's a good point.

[Barristan]

Do car or camera manufacturers provide blueprints for their products? I don't think so. Because they want to sell their own spare parts and accessories for their products. All third party products for these products are based on reverse engineering.

 

In case of software it is different. The more apps run on a smartphone or other operating system the more copies the vendor will sell.

Edited by Barristan, May 20 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[Pulliamj]

I almost patented a temporary light strand. I used to be an electrician. It was going to cost around 10 grand. If someone changed any part of my design by 10% it was theirs free and clear. That wasn't very comforting to me. So I opted out and saved my 10 grand. I don't know everything about patents but they told me literally it can be a sketch with a date and that's all it takes to prove you came up with an idea first. It seems like a nightmare even when it's something very unique. And even if something is found to be in violation of a patent would it be worth fighting over in court? That can get very expensive too! Just my opinion.