Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

Oak Galls as nests

formicaria oak gall natural material

  • Please log in to reply
64 replies to this topic

#1 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 4 2020 - 9:53 AM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia

Not sure if the galls are the same in Americas, but here in the Mediterranean, the galls are hard and wood-like balls.

 

IMG 20201204 184000
 

I always entertained an idea of fashioning some of them into nests, but I have never opened one. Until today.

I assumed them to have a thick shell and be hollow inside...based on knocking sound they make when knocked against one another.

To my surprise, the shell is actually quite thin (but hard), and the insides are filled with a peculiar substance...a crossbreed between cork/sponge/dirt. It is solid, but crumbles to dust when scraped with an utensil.

 

IMG 20201204 184323
 
I googled if that would be an appropriate medium for ants, and lo and behold, I found this document: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6920797/
Apparently, ants use them as nests!  :rolleyes:
Have you experimented with them, and what is your experience?
 
Also, looks like oak galls are different across the world - from what I can tell from google images...

Edited by skocko76, December 4 2020 - 9:54 AM.

  • BugFinder, ANTdrew, Ants_Dakota and 6 others like this

#2 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 4 2020 - 10:08 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,381 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

wow! that would be an amazing nest for temnothorax! it looks pretty spacious as well! i have never used them, but it seems a great idea!


  • BugFinder, skocko76 and Chickalo like this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#3 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 4 2020 - 10:28 AM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia
Yeah, apparently (according to the doc) they often house Crematogaster scutellaris, Colobopsis truncata, and Temnothorax sp. The ones in my hand are the largest I found in my recent hike, but I've seen considerably larger. Most are considerably smaller, though, so galls can be selected according to required size :)
  • BugFinder, Ants_Dakota and Chickalo like this

#4 Offline MysticNanitic - Posted December 5 2020 - 6:31 AM

MysticNanitic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 68 posts
  • LocationLa Verne, California
Minus the dark ring, the oak galls I find on our native California Live Oak look very similar.
  • BugFinder, skocko76, TennesseeAnts and 1 other like this

#5 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 7 2020 - 12:03 PM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia

The die is cast.

I drilled small holes in the side of a couple of galls, and offered them my C. scutellaris colony of 80 workers.

My hope is that they will dig galleries in them, and then be sawn in half later to admire the natural shape and arrangement of tunnels and rooms.

My guess is that they won't move in with the queen, as they have proven to be very stubborn at deciding to relocate.

 

I read that oak galls were/are used as traditional medicine for a range of infections, mostly in mouth cavity and post birth. They are also used as a source of tannin.

Looks like oaks secrete tannin into galls to fend off hymenoptera and monoptera.... weird considering the galls are wasp induced. Be that as it may, ants use them as nests in the wild, so I guess it does not bother them. The good side of tannin is that it kills bacteria, and hopefully moulds, so it could work towards this being a perfect nest medium.

 

Time will tell. I did my part, the rest is relying on the whim of my colony.

 

IMG 20201207 195135

  • BugFinder and Ants_Dakota like this

#6 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 7 2020 - 12:10 PM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,381 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

can't wait to see the results!


  • skocko76 and Swirlysnowflake like this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#7 Offline Swirlysnowflake - Posted December 7 2020 - 12:12 PM

Swirlysnowflake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • LocationBay Area, CA

can't wait to see the results!

Me too! For some reason, I've never seen a gall. If I do see one, I'll have to try this


Edited by Swirlysnowflake, December 7 2020 - 12:12 PM.

  • TennesseeAnts, Ants_Dakota and Chickalo like this

 My YouTube channel :)

 

 


#8 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 7 2020 - 12:17 PM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,381 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

can't wait to see the results!

Me too! For some reason, I've never seen a gall. If I do see one, I'll have to try this

 

never seen a gall either, but we do have walnuts, which are large, and i bet temnothorax live there


  • Chickalo likes this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#9 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 7 2020 - 1:47 PM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia

 

 

can't wait to see the results!

Me too! For some reason, I've never seen a gall. If I do see one, I'll have to try this

 

never seen a gall either, but we do have walnuts, which are large, and i bet temnothorax live there

 

 

Walnuts are hollow inside (if you remove the flesh, or it rots away. - Although I bet Temnothorax do live there.)

Galls on the other hand, are filled with cork-like substance, except for a small central hollow for the wasp's puparium. This makes them much better as ants can hollow out galleries as they see fit.

Oak galls are found on the underside of leaves (where the wasps inject their egg). This means that, come Fall, they fall off with the leaves.

So, if there are any oak trees or woods around where you live, just take a stroll and look at the ground under the branches. There should be a bunch.


  • Ants_Dakota likes this

#10 Offline Mettcollsuss - Posted December 7 2020 - 2:27 PM

Mettcollsuss

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,767 posts
  • LocationChicago, IL

I've thought about doing something similar with the walnut shells I often see all over the ground in forests. They naturally come with some chamber-like shapes in them so I always thought about using them for Myrmentoma or other hollow twig/nut dwelling ants.


  • ANTdrew, RushmoreAnts and Ants_Dakota like this

#11 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted December 7 2020 - 2:51 PM

RushmoreAnts

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,246 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

I've thought about doing something similar with the walnut shells I often see all over the ground in forests. They naturally come with some chamber-like shapes in them so I always thought about using them for Myrmentoma or other hollow twig/nut dwelling ants.

I would do this, however I barely have any walnut shells, Myrmentoma, or Temnothorax.  :lol:  :facepalm: 


  • skocko76, Ants_Dakota and M_Ants like this

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#12 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 7 2020 - 3:02 PM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia
Hahaha same here.
Never had Temnothorax, so I may be speaking out of line here, but it seems to me that a walnut could accommodate about a 1000 C scutellaris... Wouldn't that be too spacious for Temnothorax?

#13 Offline steelplant - Posted December 7 2020 - 3:26 PM

steelplant

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 146 posts
Here in uk we get several different shapes of oak galls, determined by the species of wasp that inhabited it. Perfect nest as the departing wasp leaves a nice nest entrance hole. The round ones here were used to make the black ink in medieval manuscripts. The ink hasn't faded in all this time.

Looking forward to seeing how they get on.
  • skocko76 and mantisgal like this

#14 Offline ANTdrew - Posted December 7 2020 - 5:27 PM

ANTdrew

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,937 posts
  • LocationAlexandria, VA
The US Constitution was also written with oak gall ink, I believe.
  • Ants_Dakota and Devi like this
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#15 Offline Swirlysnowflake - Posted December 7 2020 - 6:38 PM

Swirlysnowflake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • LocationBay Area, CA

The US Constitution was also written with oak gall ink, I believe.

that's cool. Good marketing strategy. "Ant nests! Made out of the same material the constitution was written with! Get your own US Constitution ant nest today!"


  • Ants_Dakota and Devi like this

 My YouTube channel :)

 

 


#16 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 7 2020 - 7:09 PM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,381 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

I've thought about doing something similar with the walnut shells I often see all over the ground in forests. They naturally come with some chamber-like shapes in them so I always thought about using them for Myrmentoma or other hollow twig/nut dwelling ants.

I would do this, however I barely have any walnut shells, Myrmentoma, or Temnothorax.  :lol:  :facepalm: 

 

same here... a little short on all the materials...


Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#17 Offline Kaelwizard - Posted December 8 2020 - 4:36 AM

Kaelwizard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,852 posts
  • LocationPoway, California

I've thought about doing something similar with the walnut shells I often see all over the ground in forests. They naturally come with some chamber-like shapes in them so I always thought about using them for Myrmentoma or other hollow twig/nut dwelling ants.

Wait you're back?


  • Ants_Dakota likes this

#18 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 8 2020 - 8:49 AM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia

Seems to be working... :)

 

IMG 20201208 135143
IMG 20201208 135227
 
You can see the sawdust they threw out on the rock below

Edited by skocko76, December 8 2020 - 8:51 AM.

  • Ants_Dakota and mantisgal like this

#19 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 8 2020 - 8:58 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,381 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

Seems to be working... :)

 

 
 
 
You can see the sawdust they threw out on the rock below

 

YES! this is awesome! i wish i had some of these around me!


Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#20 Offline skocko76 - Posted December 9 2020 - 2:10 AM

skocko76

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • LocationSplit, Croatia

 

 

Seems to be working... :)

 

 
 
 
You can see the sawdust they threw out on the rock below

 

YES! this is awesome! i wish i had some of these around me!

 

Next time I go for a hike I can collect some for you. I mostly find them up mountain paths, well away from settlements and pollution. Not sure when my next hike will be though...


Edited by skocko76, December 9 2020 - 2:10 AM.

  • TennesseeAnts, Ants_Dakota and Devi like this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: formicaria, oak gall, natural material

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users