128 replies to this topic

[Barristan]

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

 

Edited by Barristan, November 5 2020 - 8:51 PM.

[CheetoLord02]

Could we all just chill please? Honestly this seems like such a small thing to get upset over. Thanks for warning us not to use the server, but this thread has turned more into just people flaming each other. 

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.

Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.

you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 

and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 

edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

This is so easy to say. "Don't join the server." "It's not a big deal." But clearly it's missed how much this issue affects the hobby outside of the server itself. My main issue is if somebody gets the "Notorious Illegal Trader" label smacked on them by the AAK community, they are automatically shunned from the hobby or discredited from online discussions because of it. Just think of how many topics or journals here on FC are flooded with posts asking if the colony in question was obtained illegally. Who. Cares. Get their filthy dogma off this antkeeping forum once and for all.

The reason why the strict rule set there exists in the first place is because soul wants his server to be the poster child of antkeeping. The face of the hobby. He thinks if he can get enough experts and/or scientists into his squeaky-clean community, he can hopefully make antkeeping as a whole more "mainstream". That's why he thinks his rules should apply to the entire hobby and all of its many diverse platforms. So how terrible does it look when a server is constantly being blasted online for abhorrent moderation, strict and nonsensical dogma, and chastising and outright shunning some of the most experienced members of the hobby for minute and often times fake reasons. This server is 100%, entirely unfit to be the face of the Antkeeping hobby, and it should be treated as such. This IS a big deal, and until we see a change of moderation practices coming from that server, we should make an effort to distance the rest of the hobby from it, and make it more than clear that they DO NOT represent us.

Edited by CheetoLord02, November 5 2020 - 8:49 PM.

[Swirlysnowflake]

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

ok so um that was the literal only thread i’ve ever made about AC. also, i just wanted to know if there was some other factor that made him give up his ants. i have nothing against AC, he’s gotten most of us into ant keeping in the first place.

[Vendayn]

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

oh well lol. They sound very defensive, very suspicious.

 

Its akin to an adult going to a school and then going "hey boys and girls, I can be your best friend" and becoming the most popular adult at that school and its a bunch of kids. Creepy and weird lol. The same with youtubers...like...why would an adult want a bunch of kids fawning over them.

 

If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't become so defensive over it. Nothing to defend if there really is nothing there. Its just weird adults want a bunch of kids following them.

 

They can hate all they want anyway, they have no power here. Its owned by drew and drew doesn't censor people like they do on that discord. Unless someone is threatening to kill someone, then he bans them (sometimes gives multiple warnings, but eventually if they keep doing it, they get banned). I personally don't want to be in a kid dominated chat group or website, cause that's weird and creepy. Like all those adult creeps that got caught that played roblox.

Edited by Vendayn, November 5 2020 - 9:16 PM.

[Swirlysnowflake]

 

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

oh well lol. They sound very defensive, very suspicious.

 

Its akin to an adult going to a school and then going "hey boys and girls, I can be your best friend" and becoming the most popular adult at that school and its a bunch of kids. Creepy and weird lol. The same with youtubers...like...why would an adult want a bunch of kids fawning over them.

 

If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't become so defensive over it. Nothing to defend if there really is nothing there. Its just weird adults want a bunch of kids following them.

 

They can hate all they want anyway, they have no power here. Its owned by drew and drew doesn't censor people like they do on that discord. Unless someone is threatening to kill someone, then he bans them (sometimes gives multiple warnings, but eventually if they keep doing it, they get banned). I personally don't want to be in a kid dominated chat group or website, cause that's weird and creepy. Like all those adult creeps that got caught that played roblox.

 

who sounds defensive? and also are the kids fawning over the adults because they... keep ants well or something? that is strange 

[NickAnter]

This should be moved to Politics, Religion and Culture.

[Vendayn]

 

 

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

oh well lol. They sound very defensive, very suspicious.

 

Its akin to an adult going to a school and then going "hey boys and girls, I can be your best friend" and becoming the most popular adult at that school and its a bunch of kids. Creepy and weird lol. The same with youtubers...like...why would an adult want a bunch of kids fawning over them.

 

If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't become so defensive over it. Nothing to defend if there really is nothing there. Its just weird adults want a bunch of kids following them.

 

They can hate all they want anyway, they have no power here. Its owned by drew and drew doesn't censor people like they do on that discord. Unless someone is threatening to kill someone, then he bans them (sometimes gives multiple warnings, but eventually if they keep doing it, they get banned). I personally don't want to be in a kid dominated chat group or website, cause that's weird and creepy. Like all those adult creeps that got caught that played roblox.

 

who sounds defensive? and also are the kids fawning over the adults because they... keep ants well or something? that is strange 

 

yeah, it was like antscanada entered the chat room, except it was random users and not even anyone famous or well known or even mattered. 

 

The chat room (along with other discord chat rooms, the ant keeping one isn't exclusive to this danger, though its popular and big+filled with kids) is actually rife for the potential for predators, who use "anting" as a reason to meet up. Or not even anting, but meet up to do ant trades. Granted parents are usually involved to do the driving, but who is to say that will be the case all the time? What if a predator lives nearby and so they just meet? What if it isn't just kids, but a woman goes to meet up or do anting and gets assaulted? Very similar things have happened in other chats, forums and (especially) games, but has happened on facebook and other social media as well. Its happened with famous youtubers where they meet their victims online because of their popularity they assault women (or kids)

 

Its an actual legit issue, and most of these chats and games and what not are never pre-emptive about it to make sure it doesn't happen. Its always AFTER the fact. And discord they can just private message people away from public view, like most other social media and games that they can. Sometimes they get caught, but not all the time.

Edited by Vendayn, November 5 2020 - 9:40 PM.

[Vendayn]

Its not discord, but it happens on youtube and other games, and has happened massively on twitch (there was a whole thing were women came forward...YEARS later...where they reported they got assaulted from well known twitch streamers, some when they were underage). Just because it hasn't been known to happen on the ant keeping discord, doesn't mean it can't happen or hasn't already happened and they don't come forward.

 

https://www.gamesind...use-allegations

 

and

 

https://www.theverge...-bans-streamers

 

Ones a well known streamer for a WoW guild, one is overall Twitch streamers

 

Nothing was done to prevent these, until AFTER the fact sadly.

 

And with how some of these adults behave and seem like on discord...its kinda suspicious. Doesn't even need to involve kids, but can involve women too.

 

Also, that WoW guild refused to believe the allegations for years, which cost them their entire guild and their jobs pretty much.

Edited by Vendayn, November 5 2020 - 9:47 PM.

[Barristan]

This should be moved to Politics, Religion and Culture.

 

Why?

[Vendayn]

 

This should be moved to Politics, Religion and Culture.

 

Why?

 

If its about potential for predators that I talk about, that isn't politics or religion or culture. Anyone who thinks that would make me very very suspicious.

 

Unless he wants it there for another reason...but I don't see anywhere where this is about politics.

[Zeiss]

I honestly don't know what Vendayn is going on about with the "grooming" idea he's putting forward.  I'm on that server and I haven't seen that happen.  I was going to stay out of this because I don't care, but that comment was insane to just throw out there.  You can't just assume it's happening without evidence and just claiming "because it happens elsewhere."  

 

Edit: I now get that maybe you were trying to warn people of the potential of it happening (we talked in the chat room). I just get super defensive about sexual assault and related things because it's happened to my girlfriend multiple times and I hate seeing when people get falsely accused and nothing happens to the accuser.

Edited by Zeiss, November 5 2020 - 10:30 PM.

[Swirlysnowflake]

 

 

 

 

this thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who is not on the AAK server, i think that even though it seems like the mods may be a little over the top with their rules, or whatever else they have done, yall really need to chill.
Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a thread like this where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights u guys have in the server.
you don't like the server? don't like the mods? don't like their rules? don't join the server again. don't talk to the mods. i see no reason to making a thread like this except just to bring up arguments and insult people. 
and besides, what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial. 
edit: i’m not trying to support any of the sides in this argument

 
This thread is honestly getting ridiculous. As someone who doesn't watch AntsCanada, I think that even though it seems like AntsCanada may be a little bit over the top by releasing his colonies, or whatever else he has done , you really need to chill. Some people have valid points, but do you really have to make a (the fourth or fifths) thread like the one you did about AntsCanada where you know it will become controversial and probably just add to whatever fights you have with AntsCanada. You don't like AntsCanada? Don't like his videos? Don't like his way of keeping ants?  don't watch his videos again. don't comment on his videos. mean I see no reason to make threads like this to except to just bring up arguments and insult AntsCanada. And besides what do you get out of arguing all day on something this trivial.
edit: I'm not trying to support any of the sides in this argument.

 

@Vendayn

 

 

oh well lol. They sound very defensive, very suspicious.

 

Its akin to an adult going to a school and then going "hey boys and girls, I can be your best friend" and becoming the most popular adult at that school and its a bunch of kids. Creepy and weird lol. The same with youtubers...like...why would an adult want a bunch of kids fawning over them.

 

If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't become so defensive over it. Nothing to defend if there really is nothing there. Its just weird adults want a bunch of kids following them.

 

They can hate all they want anyway, they have no power here. Its owned by drew and drew doesn't censor people like they do on that discord. Unless someone is threatening to kill someone, then he bans them (sometimes gives multiple warnings, but eventually if they keep doing it, they get banned). I personally don't want to be in a kid dominated chat group or website, cause that's weird and creepy. Like all those adult creeps that got caught that played roblox.

 

who sounds defensive? and also are the kids fawning over the adults because they... keep ants well or something? that is strange 

 

yeah, it was like antscanada entered the chat room, except it was random users and not even anyone famous or well known or even mattered. 

 

The chat room (along with other discord chat rooms, the ant keeping one isn't exclusive to this danger, though its popular and big+filled with kids) is actually rife for the potential for predators, who use "anting" as a reason to meet up. Or not even anting, but meet up to do ant trades. Granted parents are usually involved to do the driving, but who is to say that will be the case all the time? What if a predator lives nearby and so they just meet? What if it isn't just kids, but a woman goes to meet up or do anting and gets assaulted? Very similar things have happened in other chats, forums and (especially) games, but has happened on facebook and other social media as well. Its happened with famous youtubers where they meet their victims online because of their popularity they assault women (or kids)

 

Its an actual legit issue, and most of these chats and games and what not are never pre-emptive about it to make sure it doesn't happen. Its always AFTER the fact. And discord they can just private message people away from public view, like most other social media and games that they can. Sometimes they get caught, but not all the time.

 

this is why i never pick up ants or anything. only get them shipped to me

[Barristan]

To be fair, I don't think anyone there would try to do bad things to children and there is no evidence for that too.

 

Of course the internet is a dangerous place for children, there may be some predators hiding in almost every forum, chat etc. But I think it is mostly parent's job to protect the child from such harm.

Edited by Barristan, November 5 2020 - 10:29 PM.

[Vendayn]

Well I'm gonna leave it off here. I didn't specify anyone or target anyone, I think my badly worded point was that a safety talk for everyone would probably suffice.

 

Subverted in chat pointed out that in other insect/exotic hobbies there is a lot of creepers. Well that's just his view, I'm not part of other hobbies so I dunno about that. And maybe the ant keeping hasn't been targeted by them, but it is a potential issue. I wasn't targeting anyone specifically and I never called anyone out. I did say some acted weird/suspicious, but it could very well be nothing. But people can do things they wouldn't do if its someone famous or someone that has befriended them (even in real life) and something happens after knowing them for months/years. In my two links above, those twitch streamers and that guild leader used both their fame, and also befriending the people for years. Maybe its up to peoples individual safety, but I still think saying something about safety is important. Especially online, you never know who someone really is, and if meet up to ant/trade, at least bring a friend (or/and) parent. And especially meet in public, and not go off into the boondocks alone.

 

Granted, with covid, doubt anyones anting or meeting up together anyway. But still.

Edited by Vendayn, November 5 2020 - 10:34 PM.

[Subverted]

On 2020-09-22 soul (the founder of the discord server) wrote the following:
 
And in 2017 he already wrote the following about the same user:

I just wanted to show you how hypocritical these people are and how they treat other people not being able to read what they talk about them.

This is amazing considering I have never even visited the ant keeping discord as far as I am aware! So nice of him to feel the need to talk about me in a place that I have never been. Real class act there!

[Otter]

Stop turning this conversation into a joke please. You don't have to be famous to be known by a group of people. LordOfAnts is an older florida member, I'm sure you have seen him around. he's by no means famous, I think his youtube has 200 subscribers, however he has built up a reputation in AAK. He is knowledgeable, friendly, and willing to help newer members. Nurbs, noebl1, and many other older members are the same way. What you see as worshipping is nothing more than people being friendly and liked by the community.

[Barristan]

Some of the more recent ant keepers might not remember this forum but The Ant Farm And Myrmecology Forum on Yuku (now Tapatalk) was once the most popular international forum and very active. However, the admin had a very strict grammar and spelling policy and would annoy you until you had fixed all of your spelling and grammar errors in your posts, even if it were minor ones. He also did not listen to people asking him to be a bit less restrictive since it was quite annoying.
 
The most hilarious thing was making him a poll Should this forum be strict with English rules? and later in that thread, he made that response:
 

 
So he never did care about other user's opinions, it is his forum, he is the overlord (the title he gave himself), so he does what he wants.
 
In the end, a lot of people did not like the way he leads the forum so formiculture.com was founded and the ant farm forum is mainly used by a single person, guess who that is?
 
What I want to say is the following: Only because you are currently the most popular ant keeping community that doesn't mean that this will never change. If you don't listen to rational critique and keep continuing your totalitarian ruler-ship then more and more people will be banned or leave by themselves.
 
At least the admin of the ant farm forum was honest and said it clear how much he cared about other people's opinions. The leadership of the AAK discord server, however, act if they cared about user's opinions and problems but in reality, they give as much [censored] as the guy of the ant farm forum.

[NickAnter]

It classifies in culture. Because that is what it is. A cultural divide in ant keeping. Over something fairly small.

[Barristan]

I just checked out the AAK server discussion channel and I wasn't surprised that there wasn't a lot of progress made to address all the issues people have with the rules, the mods, etc.

The two persons called out here (and also by others which showed additional examples of how some mods don't care about rules, for example, Serafine still posting political stuff all the time) did not even take part in the discussion in this channel.
 
So everything stays the same it seems.

[Manitobant]

Idiots never change