11 replies to this topic

[Cephalotus]

Has anyone here lately had issues with THA nests? In M_Ants thread he said he received advice stating that you should air out your nests for 2-3 weeks to get rid of any residual chemicals. I found this surprising as the last time there were issues with THA nests was in 2017 with their type 2 material, but that was discounted. Another member reported some camponotus colonies dying as soon as they were moved into a THA nest, could be caused by a whole variety of other factors, so automatically assuming it was the nest’s fault isn’t a sound conclusion to make.

Anyway, I contacted Mack directly and he said that all the chemical issues were resolved years ago and that there is absolutely zero need to air anything out. Every nest is tested with a single worker before being shipped out, and for months/years he hasn’t had any reports of deaths due to chemicals from the nest. He also explained he’s moved in entire colonies into brand new nests immediately after being manufactured and that they’re all doing great, indicating that THA nests are 100% safe. Any thoughts or experiences on the matter are welcome.

[nurbs]

You're fine, no issues with THA nests.

 

If you're referring to the care sheets I write in regards the testaceus I sold to M_ants, yes I do mention "airing out" nests. I do that with any commercial nest, not just THA, as a precautionary measure - especially if you've either spent money on the colony or put time and energy rearing your own beloved queen to workers only to have them suddenly die by dropping the entire colony into a foreign environment. 

 

Even with the nests I make out of hydrostone, it takes 30 minutes for it to harden and a week to cure, but I almost always wait a month before dropping colonies in.

 

Again, it's all about being safe. I've been doing this ant thing for a decade now and have seen impatient kids do this more times than I care to count. There are so many factors into why colonies die off suddenly, and as an antkeeper you want to take the proper steps to insure it's not something you could have prevented.

 

 

[Cephalotus]

Many thanks for the detailed reply!

[Cephalotus]

Even with the nests I make out of hydrostone, it takes 30 minutes for it to harden and a week to cure, but I almost always wait a month before dropping colonies in.

Could you elaborate on the hydrostone thing? I thought after it was fully hardened by the 30 minute mark it also meant it was fully cured, I guess I don’t understand the distinction between both terms. Is there any risk to dropping them in within a day of making that you know of? I myself started making my own hydrostone nests, however I’m testing the first batch out on some expendable lasius before moving more valuable species in.

[M_Ants]

The way I understand it is after 30 min it's hardened as in it's a solid. After that it takes a while for the chemical reactions to finish and water to evaporate or at least something along those lines. Kind of like taking a cake out of the oven too soon. It may have change from a liquid batter into a solid(as in state of matter) cake but it still isn't done.

Edited by M_Ants, September 28 2020 - 8:36 PM.

[B_rad0806]

With hydrostone it starts off as a powder and when water is added it is like thick syrup. It takes 30 minutes for the hydrostone to harden meaning it is no longer a liquid. The curing process is where all the chemicals are all released.

[Cephalotus]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I figured that after it hardened and cooled off that the chemical reactions were done. Anyway we’ll see how my lasius colony holds up. Glad I came here for more info. However, does anyone have a source that states hydrostone takes a week to fully cure? I’d like to read up more on it if possible

[nurbs]

Hardening is not the same as curing. Hydrostone takes 20-30 minutes to harden. Depending on your relatively humidity and ambient room temperature, it could take a few days to weeks to 100% cure. Curing is when all water has evaporated and whatever chemical reactions have taken place. You'll know it is cured when you touch it and it is super hardened like a rock (uncured hydrostone is a bit soft, you can scratch it), and completely void of any moisture.

 

Something else to note is that hydrostone expands as it cures, usually around 3-5%, in all directions. So if you pour your hydrostone into a container and it is weakly held together, it might crack at the seams. 

 

There's not a good source online for how long it takes hydrostone to properly cure because most people who use hydrostone are sculptors or arts and crafts type people. They aren't putting ants into their pours. So when you ask a layman hydrostone user how long it takes to "cure", their response would probably be 30 minutes.

 

Just take my word for it. No one is lying to you. I've killed plenty of ants with uncured hydrostone.

Edited by nurbs, September 28 2020 - 9:23 PM.

[dspdrew]

I have never had an issue putting ants in something made from Hydrostone within a day.

[nurbs]

Because your pours are tiny. The larger and thicker the mold, the longer it takes to cure. You only use hydrostone for your dirt boxes only right? They are less than half an inch high and the entire nest is mostly dirt and not hydrostone.

 

Your other nests are epoxy if I am not mistaken?

 

Many of my pours are this and larger.

 

[ghoguma]

Has anyone here lately had issues with THA nests? In M_Ants thread he said he received advice stating that you should air out your nests for 2-3 weeks to get rid of any residual chemicals. I found this surprising as the last time there were issues with THA nests was in 2017 with their type 2 material, but that was discounted. Another member reported some camponotus colonies dying as soon as they were moved into a THA nest, could be caused by a whole variety of other factors, so automatically assuming it was the nest’s fault isn’t a sound conclusion to make.

Anyway, I contacted Mack directly and he said that all the chemical issues were resolved years ago and that there is absolutely zero need to air anything out. Every nest is tested with a single worker before being shipped out, and for months/years he hasn’t had any reports of deaths due to chemicals from the nest. He also explained he’s moved in entire colonies into brand new nests immediately after being manufactured and that they’re all doing great, indicating that THA nests are 100% safe. Any thoughts or experiences on the matter are welcome.

i just saw ur reply here. didn't thought of contacting mack at all TBH. Thought it was my fault anyway. As i mention earlier, i started noticing ants werent doing well after couple days later. c.sensabeanus died slowly-queen stop reproducing and workers die everyday. Before i put it to mini hearth III, they were homed in andrew's mini starter nest and they were dking fine.

my bigger colony CA US02 also slowly died off as well. I contacted Nurb and he recommmended to put colony back into his V2 nest.
once I took them out, queen started laying eggs again but all workers that was present in mini hearth slowly died off even when i took them out from the nest. one that i currently have is new generations of workers that enclosed after i took then Out. Trust me.. it was sux to removed dead ants out of the nest every single day.

If it was only one colony,yea i would have think other wise, but it was two colonies and only thing i did was moved them as soon as I got the nests.

Maybe mack is right. It is safe but with my experience? I rather take safe route and air them out before i moved them into new nest.

Edited by ghoguma, October 5 2020 - 6:35 PM.

[OhNoNotAgain]

Interesting. I just moved all my honeypot queens out of test tubes and into brand new, unused, unrinsed Type III mini-hearths (usually I rinse them to rinse out loose sand and any residuals, but in this case pots need loose sand so I didn't). But I did talk with Mack and he told me he had recently put his own ants into some formicaria he'd just made a couple days before.

 

Personally I haven't had any problems with ants in THA. If something weird does happen to my pots I'll post about it in my journal, for sure.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, October 6 2020 - 1:24 PM.