27 replies to this topic

[LAnt]

I just got a sample of byformica's formula 100, 300 and 600. I guess he got rid of the free samples but has anyone used this yet to feed their colonies? It carries a few preservatives and colors so I'm just double checking if there are any weird effects.

 

Here's a link that might work for the sample: http://byformica.us3...68&e=ef0bfbbace

Edited by LAnt, September 7 2014 - 8:12 AM.

[dspdrew]

I would like to give his food a try if he has fixed that preservative problem the free sample batch had.

[Mercutia]

I was part of the sample testing group and the majority of my ants wouldn't take it because of the level of preservatives however he reduced the preservatives level and I've been told this has fixed it's appeal so the majority of ants should take it now.

 

So far the ants that have taken it have been perfectly fine.

The only weird side effect would be it turns the larvae colors which is more cool than anything else.

[dspdrew]

Yeah, the only ants of mine that ate it were my Pogonomyrmex, and Veromessor, and both have been perfectly fine. They too had lots of blue larvae.

[LAnt]

Mercutia, so you're not using it permanently as of right now?

[Crystals]

I tried a sample of the gel he sent me.  I posted the full review over on antfarm.yuku.  But it really seems to depend on the colony....  I have at least 25 colonies of Camponotus herculeanus - half of them tried it, a few loved it, and some dislike it.

I wouldn't use it as a steady food source, but very handy if you asked someone else to care for your ants while you were gone.

 

Although I will admit that it has a weird odour....

[Mercutia]

It smells almost like sweet eggs. It really does have a weird odour.

 

While I do like it for easy feedings, you would still need to regularly supplement with insects. I wouldn't recommend it at as a whole food source. But then again, that's my recommendation for any commercialized "ant food" or such. I still use it though. Colonies take it more readily in its liquid form so I would recommend using it that way. It's an easy fix when I get lazy and don't want to go hunting for creepy crawlies to feed my colony.

[Crystals]

Terry gave me a few more samples.  One of Blue 100, Aqua 300, and Green 600.

 

My colonies and setups:  (Note: my colonies were very close to hibernation when I started this, so results may not be as "normal" as I would like.  Some colonies went into hibernation during the course of this test.)

 

Camponotus novaeboracensis - one colony, 110 workers, lots of larger larvae + pupae.  Hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.

Campontous herculeanus - one colony, ~120 workers, lots of small and large larvae + pupae.  Hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.

Lasius -  one colony, 40+ workers, lots of brood, Hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.

Myrmica - 3 colonies, 2 species. Lots of brood.  Ranging from 15-80 workers.  2 out of 3 have a hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.  third is offered nectar 3 times weekly.

Formica ulkei - one colony, 30 workers, some brood.  Hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.

Formica podzolica - 2 colonies, one with 5 workers, one with 15 workers.  One with 15 workers has hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7, one with 7 workers is offered nectar twice a week.

Tapinoma sessile - one colony: 3+ queens, 100+ workers, lots of brood.  Hummingbird nectar feeder available 24/7.  Offered live flightless fruit flies twice weekly.

Aphaenogaster  2 colonies, one with 2 workers, one with 6 workers.  Offered hummingbird nectar 2-3 times a week.

 

 

 

Green 600:  (6tsp of water as per paper instructions)

Lukewarm reception across the board.

 

First 15min:

Camponotus novaeboracensis - touched it with their antennae and are more or less ignoring it (they did not jump or have a strong reaction - resembled a lack a interest).

Campontous herculeanus - very slight feeding response.  1-2 workers are drinking out of 12 in the outworld - most examined it and are ignoring it.

Lasius -  very slight feeding response (despite having no protein for almost a week and a fair bit of brood). 1-2 workers are drinking.

Myrmica - are taking a slight interest.  Several workers are walking on it and tasting.  Not as much excitement as when a mealworm piece is dropped, and not as much as the test batch.

Formica ulkei - showing some interest.  1-2 workers out of 8 in outworld are drinking.

Formica podzolica - showing some interest.  Smaller colonies seem more unsure about it than larger ones.

Tapinoma sessile - slight feeding response of 2-3 workers drinking.  Nothing close to the response I get from dropping in an actual insect.

Aphaenogaster  (6 workers) - are ignoring it.

 

Additional smaller colonies of all species with less than 10 workers are showing no interest in it.

 

Aqua 300: (8tsp of water as per recommended online instructions)

Poor reception across the board.

 

First 15min:

Camponotusnovaeboracensis -  touched it with their antennae and are completely ignoring it (they did not jump or have a strong reaction - just a lack a interest).

Camponotus herculeanus - smaller colonies are ignoring it.  My colony of 100+ workers with lots of brood did eat some of it, but the response was not very enthusiastic.

Lasius -  completely ignoring it after an initial inspection, despite lots of larvae in the nest.

Myrmica - are taking a slight interest.  Several workers are walking on it and tasting.  Much less interest than Green 600.

Formica ulkei - completely ignoring it after they attacked it and ensured it wasn't a threat.

Formica podzolica - all colonies are completely ignoring it.

Tapinoma sessile - slight feeding response of 5-6 workers drinking. This was the only colony to show more interest in the Aqua 300 than in the Green 600.

Aphaenogaster  (6 workers) - are ignoring it.

 

Additional smaller colonies of all species with less than 10 workers are showing no interest in it.

All of my 5 Formica species are completely ignoring it and want nothing to do with it, which is unusual as at least one species will at least take some of any given food.


Blue 100

Just out of curiosity, before I mixed the blue batch I took a tiny amount of blue 100 powder (about the head of a pin worth).  My large colony of Camponotus herculeanus took interest with about 10 foraging ants coming to check it out.  Oddly enough, they would pick up a tiny crumb and start to walk - the crumbs never hit the garbage pile or made it into the nest.  The ants carrying it seemed a bit confused once they started walking, and hid the crumbs in odd locations, under a rock, under the nectar feeder, along the wall joint, under the feeding plate.  I have never seen them do this before.  They have a very neat and tidy garbage pile. 

Now the ants behavior really had my interest, I took another pin head sized bit of blue 100 powder and mixed it with an equal amount of hummingbird nectar (just mixed, didn't heat it).  I had 4 ants suddenly converge on the slurry, drinking, and occasionally using their mandibles to mix it up for easier consumption.  Considering they have a  a liquid feeder with hummingbird nectar in it I was quite surprised that I had more interest in the blue/hummingbird nectar slurry than in the pure hummingbird nectar.  Within 5 minutes the slurry was completely gone, with 8 ants carefully inspecting the feeding plate looking for more.

 

Next day, I mixed a pea sized amount of powder with hummingbird nectar and offered it to several other colonies.  Immediate reaction was low to lukewarm, but after 5-10min the ants were much more receptive to it.  Perhaps some chemical reaction?

Formica seemed pleased with it, with most foraging workers eating.

Myrmica preferred it after it had sat at least 10-15min, lukewarm response with 4-5 workers.

Camponotus herculeanus were not as enthusiastic as the first time, after 15min several workers were eating.  Although most workers had gasters swollen with food, so that may have also had an effect.

Aphaenogaster (less than 10 workers) had about 1/3 of the workers enjoying it after it sat for 15-20 min.

 

 

Mixed half a package of Blue 100 according to the directions.

Camponotus novaeboracensis - touched it with their antennae and are completely ignoring it (they did not jump or have a strong reaction - just a lack a interest).

Camponotus herculeanus - smaller colonies are mostly ignoring it.  My colony of 100+ workers with lots of brood did came back occasionally, but the response was not very enthusiastic.

Lasius -  completely ignoring it after an initial inspection, despite lots of larvae in the nest.

Myrmica - One colony is completely ignoring it. 2 out of 3 colonies are taking a slight interest.   Several workers are walking on it and tasting.  Less interest than Aqua or Green.

Formica ulkei - go back occasionally, but are not that crazy about it.

Formica podzolica - Some response, but it isn't nearly as much as a mealworm would create.

Tapinoma sessile - slight feeding response of 5-6 workers drinking.

Aphaenogaster  (6 workers) - 1 out of 2 colonies has one worker drinking.

 

By morning the only colonies still showing any interest were the large Camponotus herculeanus, Myrmica, and Tapinoma sessile.  Not much interest, but the rest of the colonies are ignoring it.

 

 

 

 

Experimental mixes:

 

Aqua 300 + hummingbird nectar: (8tsp of water as per recommended online instructions) After trying hummingbird nectar with blue 100 while dry, I went to mix Blue 100 with hummingbird nectar, but grabbed the wrong baggie...

Average reception for most colonies.

 

First 15min:

Camponotus novaeboracensis  Seem to be trying to hibernate even on a heating cable (I am just awaiting the last 3 pupae to eclose).  Almost no interest, 1 or 2 tasted, but that is it.

Camponotus herculeanus - My colony of 100+ workers with lots of brood is showing some interest.  3-4 workers out of 8 in the outworld are eating.

Lasius -  slight interest.  I think colony is almost ready to be put into hibernation.

Myrmica - are showing some interest.  Less interest than Green 600, but more than pure Aqua 300

Formica ulkei - Showing some interest.  The colonies in test tubes are showing more interest than those with outworld and nectar feeders available.

Formica podzolica - Showing some interest.  The colonies in test tubes are showing more interest than those with outworld and nectar feeders available.

Tapinoma sessile - Best response I have ever seen with this colony.  At least a dozen workers are always surrounding it.  Even with a feeder with hummingbird nectar, this mix is getting far more interest.

Aphaenogaster  (6 workers) - Showing slight interest.

 

Most of my colonies, including the small Camponotus colonies are all in hibernation.

 

After 5 hours, most of the colonies are burying it.  Just the larger Formica podzolica colony, the Camponotus novaeboracensis colony, the larger Myrmica colony and the Tapinoma colony are still showing dim interest.

 

 

 

Blue 100 + hummingbird nectar: (8tsp of water as per recommended online instructions)

Low reception, less than the Aqua 300 mixed with nectar.

 

First 15min:

Camponotus herculeanus - My colony of 100+ workers with lots of brood is showing little interest.  1-2 workers out of 14 in the outworld are eating.

Lasius -  little interest. This colony is ready for hibernation.

Myrmica - are showing some interest.  Less interest than the Aqua 300 with hummingbird nectar.  One 3 queen colony is ignoring it, while a second colony with one queen has about 6 workers attending it.

Formica ulkei - Showing little interest. 

Formica podzolica - Showing little interest.  The colonies in test tubes are showing more interest than those with outworld and nectar feeders available.

Tapinoma sessile - Good response, not quite a good as the Aqua 300 with hummingbird nectar mix, but very close.

Aphaenogaster  (6 workers) - Showing some interest, a tiny bit more interest than the Aqua 300 hummingbird mix.

 

After 4 hours, all of the colonies were ignoring it.

[dean_k]

I have some first-hand experience with Blue 100, Aqua 300, and Green 600 as well.

 

I mostly use Blue 100 now + Sugar water because the ants are using Blue 100 as a protein source for their larvae. I don't think they eat it for themselves because I see them drinking sugar water form time to time.

 

They wait for it to harden and mine it and bring pieces to food chamber.

 

 

 

3:44 : A worker is consuming Byformica Blue 100.

 

4:30 : A view of the nest, including queen's chamber & food rooms.

 

6:13 : More close-up view of a worker eating Blue 100.

 

 

And their mining behavior video.

 

[drtrmiller]

Crystal,

 

Do let me know when a majority of your colonies are out of hibernation and are up and running.  I have also observed different feeding responses when colonies are in cooler environments, are beginning to hibernate, or have just recently emerged from hibernation.

 

An ideal study would be performed by feeding a 1 CC cube, once per day, and providing an unlimited supply of distilled water, with one or two insects every 1-2 weeks, for 60+ days and observing the number of starting brood and ants, and the final number of brood and ants.

 

I'm convinced that, despite your preliminary results, that all of the species in your report could be sustained to maturity, if provided Formula diets on a regular and constant basis, with no other food options from which to choose, except for the rare insect and distilled water.  I've had my own issues with ants intermittently ignoring Blue 100, and seem to attribute the fact to either allowing them to gorge on Green 600 (similar to hummingbird nectar) a day or two beforehand, or the room temperature getting cooler than normal.

 

It's also worth noting that Green 600 (Ant Supplement) is almost identical in composition to the hummingbird nectar you use.  They're both +95% sucrose, or white table sugar.  For colonies that have constant access to a liquid feeder containing hummingbird nectar, I would imagine no greater response to Green 600 than had you added a duplicate liquid feeder containing hummingbird nectar.  I would also expect poor or flawed response to Blue 100 or Aqua 300 for colonies that have ad libitum access to a sweetened liquid feeder.

 

To be clear, I believe the constant presence of a liquid feeder containing sugar water or hummingbird nectar will absolutely skew results of ant nutrition responses to all synthetic diets.  I likewise do not recommend ad libitum access to Green 600, be it in liquid or gel form.  Green 600 or hummingbird nectar should be fed occasionally, perhaps at most every 3-5 days, or occasionally a 1CC cube of Green 600 alongside Blue 100 at a similar interval.  Any more than this, and you may see a diminished response to Blue 100 or Aqua 300.

 

Formula Green 600, similar to hummingbird nectar, is also great for vacations, since it contains no proteins that would otherwise readily spoil.  That is the only time when I would offer either of those foods without restriction.

 

I do have a small colony of Camponotus novaeboracensis that is currently in hibernation.  Before they went into hibernation, they wouldn't touch Blue 100, but both the queen and workers gorged on Green 600, which you say your ants ignored.  My Lasius neoniger would eat Blue 100 every day before the weather suddenly got cooler.  Toward the end, they seemed to prefer Green 600.  They're about to hibernate, as well.

 

I haven't had the opportunity to test on Aphaenogaster, Tapinoma, or Formica.  Other members have reported that Aphaenogaster enjoys Blue 100.  I would imagine Tapinoma, being a sweet-loving ant, to enjoy the Aqua 300, which is exactly what you found.

 

Anyways, thanks for your extensive feedback.  I'm looking forward to you being able to try it again for a longer period when your ants are fully up and running!

Edited by drtrmiller, November 20 2014 - 1:38 PM.

[dean_k]

I tried gel form of Green 600. The problem with it was it dried up in a day whereas sugar water can last for days using Byformiac liquid feeder.

 

So, I use your liquid feeder as a water / sugar source. A funny event happened with it once though. I guess I opened it a little too much and an ant went right into it, swum a while and came out all wet and sugary...

As it dried, sugar crystals formed and other workers were eating those off her.

Edited by dean_k, November 20 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[drtrmiller]

Haha. You definitely won't have that issue with the new ones.

 

Green 600 is easily made into a liquid by simply not boiling it.

 

Similar to hummingbird nectar, Green 600 has sucrose, preservatives, and food dye. In addition, Green 600 adds Vanderzant vitamin mix and agar, giving it better nutritive properties, and allowing it to be prepared as either a liquid or a gel.

[BugFinder]

Is green 655 similar to green 600?

[drtrmiller]

Is green 655 similar to green 600?

 

It's identical, except can only be prepared as a liquid.

[BugFinder]

Thanks Terry.  I'm having a hard time finding the directions on your site now that you've redesigned it.  Would it trouble you if I asked you for a link?

 

I'm cooking up food for my anties tonight

I think I'm going to give my componotus colony this 655 in a light year feeder.  It's time I put this stuff I bought from you to work

[drtrmiller]

Thanks Terry.  I'm having a hard time finding the directions on your site now that you've redesigned it.  Would it trouble you if I asked you for a link?

 

I'm cooking up food for my anties tonight

I think I'm going to give my componotus colony this 655 in a light year feeder.  It's time I put this stuff I bought from you to work

 

The instructions for all Forumla products are found on the Blue 100 page: 

 

http://www.byformica...uct_Information

 

Alternatively, the old PDF instructions are also available.

 

The site version is the most up-to-date instructions, and may vary slightly from the PDF.

Edited by drtrmiller, May 9 2015 - 7:56 PM.

[BugFinder]

So if gel, refrigerate, and if liquid, allow to cool but do not refrigerate?

[drtrmiller]

Updated for you:

 

http://www.byformica...uid_Preparation

[Ants4fun]

I thought I would also let people know that blue 100 works for fruit fly medium. I made a batch in a container, but my ants didn't really care for it . So I trough it In a drawer and one of my flightless fruit flies got in before I closed lid. Now a week or two later, and I see a single fruit fly in there with lots of maggots... Also I thought I would put some in my leopards gecko cage just because. It dried out, and a day later it was covered in the mealworms that escaped from his food bowl. They also turned blue...

[dean_k]

Oh yeah, my fruit flies loved Blue 100 also. Haven't tried on mealworms tho.