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Lasius flavus - single or multiple foundation please?

Started By steelplant , Jul 25 2020 2:17 AM

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35 replies to this topic

#1 Offline steelplant - Posted July 25 2020 - 2:17 AM

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I caught some Lasius flavus queens yesterday and am unsure whether to co-found them. From what I've read, they can be polygynous. It's not clear to me though whether they can found together or whether a second queen will simply join an established colony.

 

I've 4 queens in separate tubes for now. Should I co-found them?

 

Many thanks for any replies.


#2 Offline Croux - Posted July 25 2020 - 4:54 AM

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Be careful with trying polygyne founding. Some species are okay with it for a while, and then they'll have the ant equivalent of highlander happen where there can only be one. Risks injuring even the surviving Queen. If I recall, it's pleometrosis.


But if you're going to do it, introduce them early.

#3 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted July 25 2020 - 5:13 AM

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Lasius flavus are actually known to be extremely polygynous. Founding together has been done in captivity before, successfully. 


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"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#4 Offline TechAnt - Posted July 25 2020 - 8:59 AM

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If you REALLY feel worried, you can try and refrigerate them for a couple of minutes so they could calm down. But as stated above, flavus is extremely polygonus, and there is like a near zero chance that they may hurt each other.

Edited by TechAnt, July 25 2020 - 9:00 AM.

My Ants:
(x1) Campontous semitstaceus ~20 workers, 1 Queen
(x1) Camponotus vicinus ~10 workers, 1 Queen (all black variety)
(x1) Tetramorium immigrans ~100 workers, 1 Queen
(x1) Myrmercocystus mexicanus -1 Queen
(x2) Mymercocystus mimcus -1 Queen
(x1) Mymercocystus testaceus ~45 workers, 1 Queen

#5 Offline NickAnter - Posted July 25 2020 - 1:58 PM

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No. Most flavus that I have read about are pleometrotic. Lasius workers are what kill though, so they will likely end up getting a large boost, with one queen remaining. Worst case is that they end up killing all the queens. Its up to you.


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Hi there! I went on a 6 month or so hiatus, in part due, and in part cause of the death of my colonies. 

However, I went back to the Sierras, and restarted my collection, which is now as follows:

Aphaenogaster uinta, Camponotus vicinus, Camponotus modoc, Formica cf. aserva, Formica cf. micropthalma, Formica cf. manni, Formica subpolita, Formica cf. subaenescens, Lasius americanus, Manica invidia, Pogonomyrmex salinus, Pogonomyrmex sp. 1, Solenopsis validiuscula, & Solenopsis sp. 3 (new Sierra variant). 

#6 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted July 25 2020 - 4:15 PM

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No. Most flavus that I have read about are pleometrotic. Lasius workers are what kill though, so they will likely end up getting a large boost, with one queen remaining. Worst case is that they end up killing all the queens. Its up to you.

I've never heard this before. Their North American cousins, L. brevicornis, are highly polygynous though. I've seen multiple instances of polygyne in flavus online too.


  • TennesseeAnts and Ants_Dakota like this

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#7 Offline NickAnter - Posted July 25 2020 - 5:08 PM

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"In Lasius flavus, colonies with more than one queen occur but are rare (Waloff, 1957)." My guess is its entirely a regional thing.


  • TennesseeAnts and Ants_Dakota like this

Hi there! I went on a 6 month or so hiatus, in part due, and in part cause of the death of my colonies. 

However, I went back to the Sierras, and restarted my collection, which is now as follows:

Aphaenogaster uinta, Camponotus vicinus, Camponotus modoc, Formica cf. aserva, Formica cf. micropthalma, Formica cf. manni, Formica subpolita, Formica cf. subaenescens, Lasius americanus, Manica invidia, Pogonomyrmex salinus, Pogonomyrmex sp. 1, Solenopsis validiuscula, & Solenopsis sp. 3 (new Sierra variant). 

#8 Offline steelplant - Posted July 26 2020 - 12:26 AM

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Many thanks everyone. I think I'll keep them separate. My friend has put 3 of her flavus together, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. I'm all for low drama ant keeping though, and would rather avoid any Highlander scenarios. 


#9 Offline ANTdrew - Posted July 26 2020 - 3:33 AM

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Yeah, no Highlander. Lol!
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#10 Offline DDD101DDD - Posted July 26 2020 - 5:40 AM

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If they're anything like the Lasius brevicornis here(Lasius brevicornis is the NA counterpart of Lasius flavus) you should be fine. Someone has a 18 queen brevicornis colony. I'd assume that in the wild, they normally don't get together, but they will have many queens in captivity.


He travels, he seeks the p a r m e s a n.

#11 Offline yfaykya - Posted July 31 2020 - 6:05 AM

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Oddly enough I have never seen a monogynous Flavus colony. Currenty I have 2 colonies - a 3Q and a rescued 2Q one. When I was a young lad I used to collect many colonies and all had multiple queens.


#12 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted July 31 2020 - 6:11 AM

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If they're anything like the Lasius brevicornis here(Lasius brevicornis is the NA counterpart of Lasius flavus) you should be fine. Someone has a 18 queen brevicornis colony. I'd assume that in the wild, they normally don't get together, but they will have many queens in captivity.

I've found polygynous wild colonies. Again, probably regional. 


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#13 Offline yfaykya - Posted August 13 2020 - 1:58 PM

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Just for fun I just started a 12 or so queen colony that I rescued from kids paddling pool from nupitals a few days back. 


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#14 Offline Antkid12 - Posted August 13 2020 - 2:15 PM

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Nice!


Ants I have: Tapinoma sessile(2 queen colony). RED MORPH Camponotus neacticus(now has pupae!), Tetramorium immigrans (x3), Aphaenogaster sp, Temnothorax sp, Brachymyrmex sp.   possibly infertile   :(,  Ponera pennsylvanica, and Pheidole morrisi!  :yahoo: 

 

Other insects: Polistes sp. Queen

                    

Ants I need: Pheidole sp., Trachymyrmex sp., Crematogaster cerasi , Dorymyrmex sp. Most wanted: Pheidole morrisii

 

                    

                   

 

 

#15 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted August 13 2020 - 4:22 PM

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Just for fun I just started a 12 or so queen colony that I rescued from kids paddling pool from nupitals a few days back. 

We'll have to see how that works out for them, then: the polygyne and all. Good luck!


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#16 Offline yfaykya - Posted August 14 2020 - 5:30 AM

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I just noticed a male in there too for good measure. I guess he hitched a "ride" ... 

 

s1s8vrPPT7EM10feV5TVg4ndk6ecV-1MmWr2kWmm


#17 Offline ANTdrew - Posted August 14 2020 - 6:22 AM

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Lucky fellow.
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#18 Offline yfaykya - Posted September 11 2020 - 5:48 AM

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b7Lc7Wv4gcnnD7og6

 

 

Male still going strong! I lost my first queen today. Odd thing was she was physogastric at the time. Down to about 14 now I think!


Edited by yfaykya, September 11 2020 - 5:54 AM.

#19 Offline DDD101DDD - Posted September 11 2020 - 6:16 AM

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That's not phyrogastic, it's just fat.


He travels, he seeks the p a r m e s a n.

#20 Offline yfaykya - Posted September 11 2020 - 6:26 AM

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That's not phyrogastic, it's just fat.

 

Umm.. The one that was is dead. I am showing some of the others. 


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