43 replies to this topic

[Vendayn]

The non-native ant crowd is scary. See post below.

Edited by Vendayn, July 12 2020 - 11:40 PM.

[Vendayn]

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.

 

And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Edited by Vendayn, July 12 2020 - 11:42 PM.

[Solenoqueen]

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.
 
And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Not to be troublesome or anything, but I’m a bit lost here.

[Vendayn]

 

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.
 
And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Not to be troublesome or anything, but I’m a bit lost here.

 

The anti-native crowd don't like releasing native ants because of "unknown pathogens" (which are already found inside homes anyway, which means keeping native ants and they got a pathogen, then its already inside the home to begin with) and that for some reason native ants can cause damage to the environment? The second one is confusing, since humans and invasive ants and dogs/cats (plus far more other things) do FAR more damage to the environment than NATIVE ants.

 

So that then comes to the sandwich style argument

 

Either the anti-native crowd don't really believe what they say and don't care (or care very little), or they then don't want to be seen as liars/hypocrites and to further their cause, they would then do what my post said...go up to people with their pets outside and rant at them for hours about how bad they are for the environment and the pet should be killed. Which is the exact same type of people who would start killing people (the exact source of environmental problems) to protect the environment, especially if it was legal. that's the scary part of them if they really do believe it.

 

This originated in the posts in this thread about "releasing ants bad". Though the OP released non-native ants, which is different than releasing native ants. But the anti-native crowd doesn't see a difference between native life and non-native life and would be the type of people above, that or they are trolling and don't really believe all that. But some of them on that side, their posts are really scary. If it was legal (especially if it was made legal), they would murder people to protect the environment and protect against pathogens, because I think they really believe what they say (at least some of them). Like north korean firing squads to prevent covid. But for the non-native crowd, for them it would be anything that would spread pathogens and potentially harm the environment (and humans are the #1 cause of all problems in the environment). Scary stuff on the anti-native side, not just ants but other pet keeping hobbies that want to kill everything native.

Edited by Vendayn, July 13 2020 - 12:18 AM.

[Mdrogun]

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

 

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Vendayn]

 

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

 

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

yeah as far as the OP goes, it sounds tbh more like an invasive pheidole if the numbers are even a tiny fragment of the population estimates he did. If that is correct, sounds like he just released pheidole megacephala than pheidole navigans. And it doesn't actually matter, because he most likely released a non-native ant which is bad.

Edited by Vendayn, July 13 2020 - 1:30 AM.

[VenomousBeast]

 

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

 

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

Yeah, I meant Pheidole dentata. Thanks for the check though!

[SuperFrank]

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.

And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Not to be troublesome or anything, but I’m a bit lost here.

The anti-native crowd don't like releasing native ants because of "unknown pathogens" (which are already found inside homes anyway, which means keeping native ants and they got a pathogen, then its already inside the home to begin with) and that for some reason native ants can cause damage to the environment? The second one is confusing, since humans and invasive ants and dogs/cats (plus far more other things) do FAR more damage to the environment than NATIVE ants.

So that then comes to the sandwich style argument

Either the anti-native crowd don't really believe what they say and don't care (or care very little), or they then don't want to be seen as liars/hypocrites and to further their cause, they would then do what my post said...go up to people with their pets outside and rant at them for hours about how bad they are for the environment and the pet should be killed. Which is the exact same type of people who would start killing people (the exact source of environmental problems) to protect the environment, especially if it was legal. that's the scary part of them if they really do believe it.

This originated in the posts in this thread about "releasing ants bad". Though the OP released non-native ants, which is different than releasing native ants. But the anti-native crowd doesn't see a difference between native life and non-native life and would be the type of people above, that or they are trolling and don't really believe all that. But some of them on that side, their posts are really scary. If it was legal (especially if it was made legal), they would murder people to protect the environment and protect against pathogens, because I think they really believe what they say (at least some of them). Like north korean firing squads to prevent covid. But for the non-native crowd, for them it would be anything that would spread pathogens and potentially harm the environment (and humans are the #1 cause of all problems in the environment). Scary stuff on the anti-native side, not just ants but other pet keeping hobbies that want to kill everything native.

Are you high

[SuperFrank]

Please miss melodrama, show me some of these radical and scary posts that have got you scared enough to claim the authors are lusting for murder.

Edited by SuperFrank, July 13 2020 - 3:17 AM.

[ANTdrew]

Here we go again. Honestly, I think there is nothing to be done about ant diversity in human dominated areas of CA. There’s no getting that Argentine genie back in the bottle. We’ve had this discussion over and over again on the forum. My advice to the youngsters stuck in Argentine territory is to move.

[Serafine]

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.

 

And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Dude, you seriously need to take off your tinfoil head.

The biggest problem right now is the "muh freedom" crowd that believes their own selfish entitled personal opinion trumps every scientific advise, every law, every state order and everyone else's interest in not dying even in the face of a contagious desease.

If people weren't so convinced they knew better than anyone with an actual education on the matter US covid numbers would look pretty much like the numbers in most of Asia and Europe do at this point - instead the US is dashing full steam towards the 3.5 million cases mark and is on it's own accounting for a quarter of all worldwide cases and a quarter of all world-wide deaths which is an impressive achievement with a nationwide population of 320 million in a world of almost 8 billion (8000 million) people and something that should give everyone a very clear indication of which attitude actually is the problematic one.

 

People who argue against releasing native ants do so mostly for three reasons.

The main concern is bringing stuff into the environment that isn't supposed to be there like mites, bacteria, nematedos and the like  - honestly I think the chance of that happening is really slim as long as you're not keeping any exotic ants (which you're not supposed to do in the US) or any other exotic invertebrates (this may happen if you have exotic inverts like isopods or mantids), especially when considering that houses are regularly raided by native ants so they'd come into contanct with household pathogens anyway. This is a much more real issue with scientific labs and universities that home all kinds of exotic animals with their own potential deseases, parasites and bacterial flora.

The second concern is intraspecific homogenisation, this means if you take an ant from the northern part of your state and release it at the southern end populations are likely to be slightly different and adapted to their local environment - by exchangig genes between places the ants' genetics become more alike which makes them less adapted to their local environments and more susceptible to contagious infections (because their entire state-wide population as a whole becomes less genetically diverse so it's easier for diseases to spread from colony to colony).

The third concern is that even on a small scale ecological balance is a tricky thing. Germany made extensive efforts to re-introduce Formica wood ants into habitats where they had presihed and despite all the planing, build-up and extensive care most of the colonies didn't make it beyond a decade and never produced offspring colonies. On the other hand I've heard about cases (particularly with Pheidole species that don't seem to excel at spreading across vast distances) where an ant got taken from one town where it lived as perfectly fine part of the local ecosystem to just the neighboring town where it went on a rampage smahsing the local ecosystem to pieces. You can never really foresee what a new species of ant actually does to a local place - an ant that does live fine in one place may develop into a huge problem in just the next town, possibly due to a slightly different micro-climate, the absence of a singular natural predator or any other obscure reason.

That said I don't really see a massive issue with releasing an ant that has not been in close proximity to exotic arthropods, doesn't have obvious signs of diseases or parasites, is from your local area and is being brought back to a place where the species can actually be found. Think what you want about it but european keepers have done that for decades and I have yet to see an actual proof that this negatively affects local populations. It's definitely still better than running around and (illegally) digging up young colonies and founding queens like some ant shops do.

Edited by Serafine, July 13 2020 - 4:57 AM.

[ForestDragon]

 

The scary thing is with the anti-native crowd, if they talked on the forum like they do in real life and went up to people and ranted at them for hours that their pet should die or be kept indoors for its entire life, they are the type of people to start murdering people and going on a murder rampage in the name of "preventing pathogens and saving the environment". Unless they really don't believe the stuff they say, and are just saying that stuff to troll people. Otherwise they really would be the "murder rampage" people you'd see on the news that commit arson and murder people in the name to protect the environment.

 

And if it was legal to kill people and destroy stuff to protect the environment, if they really aren't trolling and believe so much about unknown pathogens of native wildlife, they really would be the people first to take advantage of the removal of those laws and start murdering people lol. that's scary actually.

Dude, you seriously need to take off your tinfoil head.

The biggest problem right now is the "muh freedom" crowd that believes their own selfish entitled personal opinion trumps every scientific advise, every law, every state order and everyone else's interest in not dying even in the face of a contagious desease.

If people weren't so convinced they knew better than anyone with an actual education on the matter US covid numbers would look pretty much like the numbers in most of Asia and Europe do at this point - instead the US is dashing full steam towards the 3.5 million cases mark and is on it's own accounting for a quarter of all worldwide cases and a quarter of all world-wide deaths which is an impressive achievement with a nationwide population of 320 million in a world of almost 8 billion (8000 million) people and something that should give everyone a very clear indication of which attitude actually is the problematic one.

 

People who argue against releasing native ants do so mostly for three reasons.

The main concern is bringing stuff into the environment that isn't supposed to be there like mites, bacteria, nematedos and the like  - honestly I think the chance of that happening is really slim as long as you're not keeping any exotic ants (which you're not supposed to do in the US) or any other exotic invertebrates (this may happen if you have exotic inverts like isopods or mantids), especially when considering that houses are regularly raided by native ants so they'd come into contanct with household pathogens anyway. This is a much more real issue with scientific labs and universities that home all kinds of exotic animals with their own potential deseases, parasites and bacterial flora.

The second concern is intraspecific homogenisation, this means if you take an ant from the northern part of your state and release it at the southern end populations are likely to be slightly different and adapted to their local environment - by exchangig genes between places the ants' genetics become more alike which makes them less adapted to their local environments and more susceptible to contagious infections (because their entire state-wide population as a whole becomes less genetically diverse so it's easier for diseases to spread from colony to colony).

The third concern is that even on a small scale ecological balance is a tricky thing. Germany made extensive efforts to re-introduce Formica wood ants into habitats where they had presihed and despite all the planing, build-up and extensive care most of the colonies didn't make it beyond a decade and never produced offspring colonies. On the other hand I've heard about cases (particularly with Pheidole species that don't seem to excel at spreading across vast distances) where an ant got taken from one town where it lived as perfectly fine part of the local ecosystem to just the neighboring town where it went on a rampage smahsing the local ecosystem to pieces. You can never really foresee what a new species of ant actually does to a local place - an ant that does live fine in one place may develop into a huge problem in just the next town, possibly due to a slightly different micro-climate, the absence of a singular natural predator or any other obscure reason.

That said I don't really see a massive issue with releasing an ant that has not been in close proximity to exotic arthropods, doesn't have obvious signs of diseases or parasites, is from your local area and is being brought back to a place where the species can actually be found. Think what you want about it but european keepers have done that for decades and I have yet to see an actual proof that this negatively affects local populations. It's definitely still better than running around and (illegally) digging up young colonies and founding queens like some ant shops do.

 

now THAT is a good argument, this thread needed that

[Broncos]

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

yeah as far as the OP goes, it sounds tbh more like an invasive pheidole if the numbers are even a tiny fragment of the population estimates he did. If that is correct, sounds like he just released pheidole megacephala than pheidole navigans. And it doesn't actually matter, because he most likely released a non-native ant which is bad.

I’ll restate what I said earlier. I’m not doing navigans anymore. I have californica that are bigger, better at fighting, and grow faster, (From my knowledge with both of them)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Broncos, July 13 2020 - 5:58 AM.

[Broncos]

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

yeah as far as the OP goes, it sounds tbh more like an invasive pheidole if the numbers are even a tiny fragment of the population estimates he did. If that is correct, sounds like he just released pheidole megacephala than pheidole navigans. And it doesn't actually matter, because he most likely released a non-native ant which is bad.

I’m planning on releasing californica which is what I need to know is good or bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vendayn]

Please miss melodrama, show me some of these radical and scary posts that have got you scared enough to claim the authors are lusting for murder.

Its the logical next step (if it was legal, though hey people commit crimes in the name of nature).

 

The anti-native crowd fixes the problem of a gushing open wound with a bandaid, they say killing native *pets* prevents something

 

The REAL solution

 

The gushing open wound is humanity who caused all the problems

 

Its the logical step, especially if it was ever legal or couldn't be enforced for whatever reason. Its not that farfetched, since killing native *pets* to save the environment (in their mind) is a bandaid to the problem in the environment, when its humanity who originally caused it. If one cares so much about it, then that is what they would resort too, even if they can't legally admit it online. Or they really don't care about it (or again, they care very little to go that far), which is what I hope most do but that means they just took up some kinda *mental* trophy prize and latched onto their "win" of killing native stuff, but don't actually believe it but since they "won" the argument they keep at it, but again maybe don't care enough about the environment to go that far as to go on a zealous rampage in the name of the environment.

 

Either way, again not farfetched. on that side. Either care about the environment and solve the root of the issue (humanity) or care little and don't. AND the biggest problem isn't so much what humanity DOES, its how overpopulated humans are on a planet that can't sustain them. So killing native ants and other native pets is a bandaid that shows little care, and they don't care about dealing with the root of the issue (and why there are so many invasive things) which is...an overpopulated humanity. I guess killing native pets is just a super easy to reach for victory for them, but doesn't show much care in truth. If they truly cared, again the root of the issue is humanity. Though earth itself or humanity will probably solve the issue themselves. Overpopulated (and humanity is pretty destructive and loves to destroy the planet on top of overpopulation, which I believe is actually unique) species in the past have not done so good.

 

However, there is a proper definition of native as Serafine said at the end of his post.

 

It is NOT native if its not from the same ecosystem. Sometimes across the main road that ant is a different species despite looking the same. The best example is Dorymyrmex bicolor, in one city they are Dorymyrmex bicolor, the next they are actually a different species but still Dorymyrmex bicolor. Which Dorymyrmex bicolor actually is lots of species that look the same, but are actually different species. That entire species needs to be re-worked eventually. That is NOT native. And who knows how many ants are like that. For me, its as Serafine said, its native if it came from the SAME ecosystem as where they are released. Some people just like killing native ants though, the weirdo ones that release invasive ants or maybe don't but want to help invasives in anyway possible, and the small act of removing a colony (so many dig up colonies sadly) then helps invasive ants and/or disrupts the ecosystem in some way. Though I suppose if someone just caught a queen in a mating flight and raised the colony in that way, then it doesn't really belong in the ecosystem. Sadly a lot of people don't start colonies that way and just dig them up, which is more where my argument lies. Since a random caught queen might not have had the genes to survive, but in captivity did. Where as digging up a (native) colony and killing it is really wrong to anyone sane.

 

Its also maybe more an issue with areas with lots of native ants. Where I used to live in irvine and again here, its really just invasive ants. Argentine ants there, Solenopsis invicta here. So it doesn't actually really do anything at all but help against invasives.

Edited by Vendayn, July 13 2020 - 7:20 AM.

[NickAnter]

If every single person attempted to kill every single argentine colony in their yard, the population would be tanked, and natives like Nylanderia would be able to take a very firm hold, and prevent them from growing to the size they did.

[SuperFrank]

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

yeah as far as the OP goes, it sounds tbh more like an invasive pheidole if the numbers are even a tiny fragment of the population estimates he did. If that is correct, sounds like he just released pheidole megacephala than pheidole navigans. And it doesn't actually matter, because he most likely released a non-native ant which is bad.

I’m planning on releasing californica which is what I need to know is good or bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't even know what species you saw? And now you're just planning on releasing some random species? Did you get permission from the land owner? Do you have formal training in entomology or ecology? Or are you just kind of doing it.

Edited by SuperFrank, July 13 2020 - 8:06 AM.

[SuperFrank]

Please miss melodrama, show me some of these radical and scary posts that have got you scared enough to claim the authors are lusting for murder.

Its the logical next step (if it was legal, though hey people commit crimes in the name of nature).

The anti-native crowd fixes the problem of a gushing open wound with a bandaid, they say killing native *pets* prevents something

The REAL solution

The gushing open wound is humanity who caused all the problems

Its the logical step, especially if it was ever legal or couldn't be enforced for whatever reason. Its not that farfetched, since killing native *pets* to save the environment (in their mind) is a bandaid to the problem in the environment, when its humanity who originally caused it. If one cares so much about it, then that is what they would resort too, even if they can't legally admit it online. Or they really don't care about it (or again, they care very little to go that far), which is what I hope most do but that means they just took up some kinda *mental* trophy prize and latched onto their "win" of killing native stuff, but don't actually believe it but since they "won" the argument they keep at it, but again maybe don't care enough about the environment to go that far as to go on a zealous rampage in the name of the environment.

Either way, again not farfetched. on that side. Either care about the environment and solve the root of the issue (humanity) or care little and don't. AND the biggest problem isn't so much what humanity DOES, its how overpopulated humans are on a planet that can't sustain them. So killing native ants and other native pets is a bandaid that shows little care, and they don't care about dealing with the root of the issue (and why there are so many invasive things) which is...an overpopulated humanity. I guess killing native pets is just a super easy to reach for victory for them, but doesn't show much care in truth. If they truly cared, again the root of the issue is humanity. Though earth itself or humanity will probably solve the issue themselves. Overpopulated (and humanity is pretty destructive and loves to destroy the planet on top of overpopulation, which I believe is actually unique) species in the past have not done so good.

However, there is a proper definition of native as Serafine said at the end of his post.

It is NOT native if its not from the same ecosystem. Sometimes across the main road that ant is a different species despite looking the same. The best example is Dorymyrmex bicolor, in one city they are Dorymyrmex bicolor, the next they are actually a different species but still Dorymyrmex bicolor. Which Dorymyrmex bicolor actually is lots of species that look the same, but are actually different species. That entire species needs to be re-worked eventually. That is NOT native. And who knows how many ants are like that. For me, its as Serafine said, its native if it came from the SAME ecosystem as where they are released. Some people just like killing native ants though, the weirdo ones that release invasive ants or maybe don't but want to help invasives in anyway possible, and the small act of removing a colony (so many dig up colonies sadly) then helps invasive ants and/or disrupts the ecosystem in some way. Though I suppose if someone just caught a queen in a mating flight and raised the colony in that way, then it doesn't really belong in the ecosystem. Sadly a lot of people don't start colonies that way and just dig them up, which is more where my argument lies. Since a random caught queen might not have had the genes to survive, but in captivity did. Where as digging up a (native) colony and killing it is really wrong to anyone sane.

Its also maybe more an issue with areas with lots of native ants. Where I used to live in irvine and again here, its really just invasive ants. Argentine ants there, Solenopsis invicta here. So it doesn't actually really do anything at all but help against invasives.

"It is the logical next step"

This is called the slippery slope argument, it is a common logical fallacy and not worthy of a rebuttal. Being as your statement began with this fallacy the rest of your argument is called into question and also not worth a rebuttal, or even a reading, frankly. Ironic that you used the word logic in an argument that contains none.

Edited by SuperFrank, July 13 2020 - 8:54 AM.

[ponerinecat]

 

 

 

So our yard at our beach house in NC used to have MILLIONS of Argentine ants. They lived in this tree house that our previous renters illegally put up (and we tore down). Now they only live in the trees because the ground is DOMINATED by Pheidole navigans and other Pheidole species.

Pheidole navigans cannot survive in North Carolina. The farthest North they've been found is Central Georgia.

Furthermore, pertaining to everyone in this thread, Pheidole navigans is an invasive species of Pheidole in the United States. In the SouthEast, they often replace native species like Pheidole dentigula. On top of that, the colonies have an average size of ~600 workers, and are monogynous. None of you are even talking about Pheidole navigans. This thread would be like me saying 'I released my Brachymyrmex depilis colony and they killed off the Tetramorium immigrans in my area.' It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

yeah as far as the OP goes, it sounds tbh more like an invasive pheidole if the numbers are even a tiny fragment of the population estimates he did. If that is correct, sounds like he just released pheidole megacephala than pheidole navigans. And it doesn't actually matter, because he most likely released a non-native ant which is bad.

I’m planning on releasing californica which is what I need to know is good or bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Releasing ants is always sketchy.

[TechAnt]

Broncos, this is why you don’t start threads like this....I knew I would regret posting here. Seriously, we need like a rule against these idiotic threads that have already been discussed. And all the other threads on this subject, or at least the recent ones, should be archived. These threads honestly consist of the same general subject: Argentine Ants / RIFA. And methods of destroying them, releasing ants to kill them, etc. Oh, and exotic ant war zone threads should be ruled against. I hate it when everyone here goes at each other’s throats. Can we PLEASE stop this thread’s lifespan and just kill it.