18 replies to this topic

[rivkah]

Hello All.

 

My 4 year old Brachymyrmex Patagonicus colony is in  desperate need of a new ant nest.

 

They are living in 4"x4"x2" ant nest blocks purchased from Tarheel Ants. As the colony grew I added another block.  Currently they are in three (3) blocks and there are as many as living underneath the blocks as are living in each of the blocks.  Each block is approximately 70-90% filled.  And the amount living under the blocks could easily fill another block.  These ant nest blocks sit on a plastic lid acting as an island.  This island sits on a water filled lower portion of a thread spool holder  -- it has spindles onto which the thread spools would sit -- these spindles hold the "island" above the water.  The "island" is 8X10", the spool holder is 10x13".  

 

The only way I have found to contain them is using a moat -- they won't cross water --- Thank G-d!!!

 

Currently, they easily 'eat' 125-150 fruit flies 4-5 times per week, several quarter size pieces of turkey 3-4 times per week, along with honey-water, hummingbird nectar and ant juice, among other stuff.  (I culture my own fruit flies to feed everybody) 

 

So, here I am with an ant colony that has outgrown its current home and need to move  into something else.  But what?

 

Admittedly, I am not so good at visualizing how much space the colony needs.  My best guess might be twice what they currently have.

 

Also, I need to add that I seem to keep my colonies slightly differently than most -- I keep mine on a particular shelf, taking one from the shelf to maintain it, then returning it back to the shelf to fetch the next.  So, size and weight goes into the decision as to what to move them into.  (as well as which ant species I choose).

 

One idea I have it is use a large bowl filled with substrate and let them dig their own nest.  But I don't know how to make a substrate that will hold its form, not collasp on them.  Would adding live plants help stablelize the substrate?  I heard the substrate needs to be a mix of clay and sand -- but how much of each? 

 

Does anyone have a calculation as to how to determine how large a ant nest or formicarium should be? (I have made the mistake of getting a new formicarium thinking that it was big enough only to find that it was not enough or quickly had to be up-graded)

 

Please help me help my ants so that they may continue to thrive.  Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance for your kind attention to this thread.

 

Rivkah

 

 

 

[ANTdrew]

I think your best bet housing a really huge colony would be a giant terrarium in an aquarium. Use soil with a high clay content. If you can roll it into a ball that keeps it’s shape, that’s a clay heavy soil. Find an area with a lot of ant nests in the soil, and it will obviously work for your ants.

[TennesseeAnts]

Brachymyrmex patagonicus is not found in PA, and is not going to get that large. They max out at like 500 workers. You probably have a Lasius species. 

 

Regardless, I'd get them into a Labyrinth from Tarheelants or something similar. They shouldn't outgrow a Nucleus 360, so if you're willing to shell out $200, that might work. 

[rivkah]

Thank you both for your kind responses.

 

Is there any "magic formula" as to heavy clay soil to sand ratio?  

 

I currently have a Pheidole colony in a Tarheel Ants Labyrinth so I am familiar with it. (In fact, all of my colonies are in Tarheel products)  And based on the current size of the B. Patagonicus colony --- they would not be gaining much, if any, additional space in a Labyrinth.  I was looking at the Nucleus 360, type III (9x5x5").  These are incredible tiny ants that manage to find their way through cracks, holes and openings I can't even see -- which is why I keep them surrounded by a moat.  Mack, from Tarheel Ants, and I have had conversations about B. Patagonicus and commended me on my dedication to keeping these annoying tiny ants.  Mack and I are also taking about the Nucleus 360 as a possible new home for them.

 

I would prefer not spending 230+ if I can find something else that would work.  My greatest concern is keeping them contained.

 

Being a tropical fish keeper for more decades that I will admit to at this time, I am always been concerned/aware of adult or mature size.  When looking for my first ants to keep, I did the same thing, choosing only to keep ants that either medium ants whose mature colony stays rather small or tiny species whose mature colony size still would have a small footprint. 

 

I purchased the Brachymyrmex Patagonicus queen with a couple of workers about 4 years ago from a reputable PA seller.  My understanding is that he caught the queen himself in PA.  I am certain that they are not a Lasius species, but if you would be so kind and explain to me, slowly, how to post pictures, I would love to post photographs of them and their current housing to make sure of their identification.   

[TennesseeAnts]

Thank you both for your kind responses.

 

Is there any "magic formula" as to heavy clay soil to sand ratio?  

 

I currently have a Pheidole colony in a Tarheel Ants Labyrinth so I am familiar with it. (In fact, all of my colonies are in Tarheel products)  And based on the current size of the B. Patagonicus colony --- they would not be gaining much, if any, additional space in a Labyrinth.  I was looking at the Nucleus 360, type III (9x5x5").  These are incredible tiny ants that manage to find their way through cracks, holes and openings I can't even see -- which is why I keep them surrounded by a moat.  Mack, from Tarheel Ants, and I have had conversations about B. Patagonicus and commended me on my dedication to keeping these annoying tiny ants.  Mack and I are also taking about the Nucleus 360 as a possible new home for them.

 

I would prefer not spending 230+ if I can find something else that would work.  My greatest concern is keeping them contained.

 

Being a tropical fish keeper for more decades that I will admit to at this time, I am always been concerned/aware of adult or mature size.  When looking for my first ants to keep, I did the same thing, choosing only to keep ants that either medium ants whose mature colony stays rather small or tiny species whose mature colony size still would have a small footprint. 

 

I purchased the Brachymyrmex Patagonicus queen with a couple of workers about 4 years ago from a reputable PA seller.  My understanding is that he caught the queen himself in PA.  I am certain that they are not a Lasius species, but if you would be so kind and explain to me, slowly, how to post pictures, I would love to post photographs of them and their current housing to make sure of their identification.   

Sure.

 

First, upload your pictures to the gallery. Then, make or edit a post.  From there you can click on "My media" (next to the emoticons) and choose your album/picture.

[ANTdrew]

If you’ve kept fish then maybe you have aquariums available? A five gallon or up could be a forever home if the soil is deep enough.
You’d want to fashion a rim or lid out of thin plastic that you could line underneath with Fluon. Glue this rim down with silicone. No ants can climb upside down on dry fluon if it’s properly applied, thank God.
There is no magic formula for the soil. Just look for soil you can roll into a ball that will retain it’s shape. Where I live in VA, clay is the only soil in town.

[rivkah]

ant_dude 2908:   I took some pictures of the brachymrmex patagonicus, their current housing and the best close ups I could get while they were grabbing some fruit flies. .  If you need better pics, let me know and I will try again.  You got me curious.  Currently the pictures on in the 'gallery", I think I missed a part as to how post the pictures directly to a post.

 

 

 

ANTdrew: I don't have any 5 gallon tanks.  I also took a picture of a portion of my fish room.  Admittedly, I call myself a "bored fish hobbyist", so as my fishes begin to come to the end of the natural life cycles, I have been converting some tanks into terrariums or vivariums for toads, newts and lizards.  The only empty tanks I have right now are a 20 gallon and larger.  But, as I think I said earlier, I keep all my colonies on a particular shelf, removing one at a time to maintain them, then return the colony back to the shelf, so size and weight does make a difference to me. A converted fish tank just won't work for me... to tough to take on and off a shelf.  

 

I read somewhere that the proper substrate is a mix of sand and clay, but I don't recall what the ratio should be.  Yep, Pa is also mostly clay... so finding clay is certainly easy enough to do. But once I have a bucket of clay, how is it prepared?  How do you turn the "ball of clay" into a usable substrate?   Do you bake it to dry it out?

 

With these tiny ants I have tried all sorts of art barriers including fluon, rubbing alcohol mixing with baby power and extra virgin olive oil.  None worked.  I think it might be because they are just too tiny and easily just walked over the barrier.  But the moat works like a charm.  

[TennesseeAnts]

Those might actually be Tapinoma sessile.

[CheetoLord02]

While I must admit the pics look shockingly like B. patagonicus, there is absolutely no way they have filled up 3 fortress formicariums. Like said before by ant_dude, B. patagonicus literally max out at less than 500 workers, and the workers are only 1mm long on a good day. They can barely even fill an atom nest as a max sized colony.

As for a new nest, for whatever species you really have, there's a few options. Of course I'm going to recommend THA, because who wouldn't. My personal favorite options for lots of space + low cost is a Casita with the 3 sides and 4 layers. Will easily fit a colony of 5k+ workers, and is <150 dollars. Another option is an Atrium, offering what I'd assume to be even more space than a Casita. If you want something horziontal rather than vertical, look into a Labyrinth. Any of these options are great for a colony that's getting into it's later stages.

As for barriers, just get fluon. A 4oz bottle from Bioquip is $25 and will last you for years, and it works against tiny ants as well. 

[ANTdrew]

Keep in mind that Fluon is almost inevitably going to fail in the itty bitty THA outworlds. They are simply too small and hold too much humidity from the nest below. Fluon will stop any ants if used in a large enough container with great ventilation.

As for the clay, if your species are good tunnelers then you really can just put it in the tank and let them do their thing. You’ll be astonished how fast subterranean ants totally abandon the fancy formicariums for some good ol’ fashioned dirt. You can bake it a bit, but I’d recommend going bioactive by adding in decomposers like springtails (and maybe isopods, but they’ll probably get eaten).

Edited by ANTdrew, June 10 2020 - 2:39 AM.

[rivkah]

I can see the similarity with Tapinoma sessile.  But, Tapinoma appear to have bent antenna and workers are generally 3mm, while these have straight antenna and the workers are about 1 to 1.5 mm.   I will try to get better pictures.  

 

When I first got them I kept them in their test tube in an outworld.  I gave them an Atom nest (Tarheel) thinking that would be enough --- nope.... moved them into an Inception Chamber (Tarheel).... that didn't last long either.  Then gave them a 3x3x2" plastic box filled with sand --- now they are overflowing three (3) fortress ant nest blocks (tarheel)

 

These are my most irritating and frustrating colony.  I am not sure if it in is spite of that, or because of that, they are possibly my favorites.  I feel like I am in a battle of wits with an ant colony, and most of the time I think that they are winning.

 

A couple of years ago I posted here a cautionary tale of what this ant is capable of ---they escaped their previous housing and killed my colony of Dorymyrmex Bureni which finally got to around 200 workers. Then took over the Brueni's ant nest (the ant nest blocks they currently are living in) They were in a container with what I thought was a tight fitting lid, weighted down with a rock.  That was when the entire "mystery ant" colony fit into a 3x3x2" sand filled plastic box used as a nest kept inside a 8x4x4 foraging area from Tarheel Ants.

 

Their current housing is approximately 48-50 sq in (not counting those living under the blocks). So to truly move up in usable space I am looking at the Nucleus 360 or a dirt formicarium.  The problem is trying to decide which.  They currently have a 3-4 large brood piles scattered throughout their nest, so I expecting another population explosion.

 

I am in the process of moving a Pheidole colony back into their Labyrinth after living for the past few months in a small planted terrarium (6x6x12"h).  I am moving them back into their original Labyrinth because the springtails population grew to such a point that they appeared to inhibited the ants from just being ants.  But, I do like ANTdrew's idea -- I do think that the "mystery ant" will make short work of any springtails.

[NickAnter]

They look like patagonicus to me. How many queens do they have?

[RushmoreAnts]

That sounds Brachymyrmex. Yet is every black species necessarily patagonicus? I believe depilis can get to a couple thousand (these definitely aren’t depilis, though, just saying it’s possible for other Brachymyrmex.) Perhaps it’s a dark native species.

[rivkah]

I have uploaded a couple of new pictures.  I put a few of them into the refrigerator to slow them down enough to get photos of one next to a mm tape measure.  They are indeed slightly less than 1.5 mm.  

 

I only have one queen.  Admittedly, I do feed well, maybe very well, could that make a difference in number of workers?

[rivkah]

oh, I should have said, only one queen that I am aware of.  For the past couple of years the colony has been producing reproductives or aletes.  

[TennesseeAnts]

It looks like Nylanderia to me. Brachymyrmex in your area are going to be a yellow color.

Edited by Ant_Dude2908, June 10 2020 - 10:11 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

That sounds Brachymyrmex. Yet is every black species necessarily patagonicus? I believe depilis can get to a couple thousand (these definitely aren’t depilis, though, just saying it’s possible for other Brachymyrmex.) Perhaps it’s a dark native species.

We don't have any dark native species except for the far southern Brachymyrmex bruchi. Even those are only found in Arizona, Florida, Louisiana and Texas in the US.

[NickAnter]

This is 100% not Nylanderia. They are way, way too small. Nylanderia range from 2-3.5mm. I think this is B. patagonicus, just a new record.

[rivkah]

Reading these posts, I really wish the colony had stopped growing at 500 workers.  It would have made my life so much easier.

 

It seems everyone agrees what they are not -- they are not camponotus.  But, without someone, other than me, actually seeing them in person, a clear classification is elusive.  I will gladly pack up and mail a handful of workers to whoever would want to see them in person to be able to make a clear classification.  I think I can spare a few... for science.