193 replies to this topic

[PurdueEntomology]

So here is something extra I promised...living amongst the army ants, someone who "loves" them....this shot was taken a couple of days ago so it has been in the colony since collected.

 

[ponerinecat]

This has given me an idea, perhaps you could start accumalating myrmecophles and other such inguilines with them. For said mites, it may be better to leave them in there if you can distinguish them from parasites.

[PurdueEntomology]

This has given me an idea, perhaps you could start accumalating myrmecophles and other such inguilines with them. For said mites, it may be better to leave them in there if you can distinguish them from parasites.

Thank you for the advice regarding the mites.  I read a number of the posts on this forum regarding mites and since I have not found any on the ants, where to be honest initially for a good hour I was worried, but now I am not too much.  I may see if we have a mite expert in our department and take some samples in and have them keyed out. Those predatory ones are already ordered so I still have time to make up my mind.  Overall my greatest concern has been the carcasses of eaten brood-food and small fly species that would love to lay eggs on them.  But to date I have not noted anything in that area. As for the rover beetle, this is a one off, scooped up with the colony.  There may be more than one so who knows perhaps a bit of beetle love will get them together. 

[CatsnAnts]

Dang, that’s a lot of ants to keep track of- lots going on. Talk about an active ant colony lol.

[Squidkid]

So I am planning My second attempt at Neivamyrmex Sp. I am curious about some of the finer details of what You are doing? Like Your feeding regiment is very specific which is Great. Anything special about other factors of the setup. Humidity? How You maintain said Humidity? I am planning on Building a very large Enloser (hopefully later this Year) But I am curious if You have any tips. The fact that Brood development is happening is amazing I applaud that. I hope through trial and error by the few of us that attempt These Ants eventually grants a tried and true method for maintaing captive Colonies

Squidkid: Thank you for the interest. Neivamyrmex obviously is not a genus to just jump into. I want every one to understand that. Now there is the possibility of maintaining them I believe in a more sterile laboratory manner but I have chosen a more "large out world" approach. My reasoning is rather simple, offer them something they are familiar with. Now I know I have a higher possibility of disease or infection but that is a payoff. I am preparing a long culture and care paper based on previous researchers housing N. nigresecens and of course my own failed attempt two years ago and my current (cross my fingers) more successful housing this time round. I will probably have that finished in couple of months. Definitely the issue to keep in mind is keeping a colony well stocked with food. I am also keeping notes and will have real physical data to process and add to care paper. Let me see how far this colony moves forward. if I can get them through this summer successfully alive and healthy, then I will be able to speak with greater certitude and authority.

[Squidkid]

Thank You for Your response. I plane on Having a Colony soon. But that will be a trial run. My eventual plane is a huge outworld 8'×8' give or take, With connecting containers with red tinting for potential housing and feeding. So I hope That it will be fruitful.
Thank You for Your response. I plane on Having a Colony soon. But that will be a trial run. My eventual plane is a huge outworld 8'×8' give or take, With connecting containers with red tinting for potential housing and feeding. So I hope That it will be fruitful.

[madbiologist]

Thank You for Your response. I plane on Having a Colony soon. But that will be a trial run. My eventual plane is a huge outworld 8'×8' give or take, With connecting containers with red tinting for potential housing and feeding. So I hope That it will be fruitful.
Thank You for Your response. I plane on Having a Colony soon. But that will be a trial run. My eventual plane is a huge outworld 8'×8' give or take, With connecting containers with red tinting for potential housing and feeding. So I hope That it will be fruitful.

Red tinted plastic won't do much of anything, ants can see red.

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[Squidkid]

Thank You, that is good to know. The rest will still go as vaguely planned hopefully. I might change some details. But one thing I Noticed with keeping these Ants is They are very messy. So there might be some utility in a large enclosure that could be cleaned and reorganized frequently with ease

[PurdueEntomology]

I would say the food source will be the major obstacle. Currently I give 9.5 grams DAILY, when and if this first batch of larvae eclose and then if the queen lays another batch and assuming that batch is on track as a normal mass of eggs of between 10-30K I will need to eventually kick up daily food quantities to 15-16 grams/day assuming a low mortality rate with all life stages. That is between 1/2-1 cup and more like 1 cup daily. The only way this currently and in the future can and could be doable is having fire ants so abundant in my area and no restrictions on collecting.  I currently have an area of 15 mounds that I systematically raid for brood-food.  Unless a person is having such a resource I do not see this ant as being doable and though there is a report from one paper of a colony being kept on an artificial date that paper had them as difficult.  Even today I am planning on doubling my fire ant gathering from one to two field collection containers just to have extra brood-food on reserve in case it rains. I learned again yesterday trying to shovel out a few loads of fire ant mount ants/brood/soil is "mud" and has to be done delicately, the upshot, get them while no rain and keep them for a rainy day. I feed the fire ants crickets which I ordered 3000 and froze to ensure the collected brood to feed to Neiv. opac are fed and not starved.

Edited by PurdueEntomology, May 23 2020 - 2:19 AM.

[Superant33]

All species of army ants should not even be attempted by novices. I have been keeping ants for decades and I wouldn’t attempt it. Has anyone been successful long term? Most people that collect them are just sentencing them to death. There are exceptions (like the OP-I think Purdue entomology is doing good work).

[ponerinecat]

All species of army ants should not even be attempted by novices. I have been keeping ants for decades and I wouldn’t attempt it. Has anyone been successful long term? Most people that collect them are just sentencing them to death. There are exceptions (like the OP-I think Purdue entomology is doing good work).

So far Purdue has seemingly been the most successful, and both his attempts can be considered successes despite the death of the previous queen. Ferox and Antdude seem do be doing okay as well. But yeah, don't keep army ants unless you're absolutely confident you can supply their food and living space. I can see a large colony overwhelming a novice keeper and becoming a hassle to deal with.

[Squidkid]

I understand Certain People are apposed to Keeping Them... I am not one of those People. I think striving forwards in this field requires trying. If We don't try we cannot possibly think of succeeding. Going forward with encouragment and determination is Key. And PurdueEntomology Thank You for the Info. I look forward to further communication

[madbiologist]

I understand Certain People are apposed to Keeping Them... I am not one of those People. I think striving forwards in this field requires trying. If We don't try we cannot possibly think of succeeding. Going forward with encouragment and determination is Key. And PurdueEntomology Thank You for the Info. I look forward to further communication

I for one don't think most of us should be trying to succeed. In my opinion, army ants should really only be kept by zoos or research places. They don't have nuptial flights, and they're usually keystone species, so taking a colony can actually harm the environment. If there's a well known way for amateur keepers to keep them, many will go out and try to capture a colony, or go to places they've spotted and try to catch them, which would hurt those ecosystems.

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[Squidkid]

Well we have differing opinions and that is ok. I respect Your stance. And am Partially in agreement. But it does not deter Me. There is knowlegde to be gained And if Someone, even amateurs, Has the basic Know how and have done tons of reaserch and spent lots of Time, Then That potential for success and progress has its Importance. I don't advocate Everyone trying. But if some someone has the determination and the knowledge with the potential of gaining more knowledge. Then no one should put others down for trying.
Well we have differing opinions and that is ok. I respect Your stance. And am Partially in agreement. But it does not deter Me. There is knowlegde to be gained And if Someone, even amateurs, Has the basic Know how and have done tons of reaserch and spent lots of Time, Then That potential for success and progress has its Importance. I don't advocate Everyone trying. But if some someone has the determination and the knowledge with the potential of gaining more knowledge. Then no one should put others down for trying.

[CatsnAnts]

Well we have differing opinions and that is ok. I respect Your stance. And am Partially in agreement. But it does not deter Me. There is knowlegde to be gained And if Someone, even amateurs, Has the basic Know how and have done tons of reaserch and spent lots of Time, Then That potential for success and progress has its Importance. I don't advocate Everyone trying. But if some someone has the determination and the knowledge with the potential of gaining more knowledge. Then no one should put others down for trying.

I have to agree with Mad on this one. Attempting to keep this species may prove to be a great challenge, as such, only very experienced ant keepers should attempt it. Purdue Entomology clearly has a vast knowledge of these ants, and was extremely prepared for it. Simply learn from his journal, there is no point in getting ahead of yourself only to destroy a natural colony.

Edited by CatsnAnts, May 23 2020 - 3:06 PM.

[PurdueEntomology]

I want to add an important note.  I am planning to do my PhD starting in 2021 on some aspect of endemic army ants.  I am considering to do a biological/behavior and evolutionary phylogenetic study of Neivamyrmex as a genus since the only well studied species behaviorally and biologically  is  N.nigrescens of the 130+known species.  N. nigrescens is taken as a "type" or "typical' species representing current behavior and biology of the genus, of course this is blatantly insufficient and assuming one species in such a species rich genus  expresses phenotypes that are indicative and characteristic of the whole genus is wrong.  Also there is Nomomyrmex which is a phylogenetically related genus to Neivamyrmex of which like almost all Dorylinids nothing is known fo their biology and behavior.   One of the important aspects of phylogeny in a more complete manner beyond genomics is the place of behavior and biology with regards to evolutionary development within any studied group of related sister species or conspecifics for example in the genus Neivamyrmex.  So my interest and intense time to this colony is to  learn and prepare for possible further colony housing of conspecifics as I pursue the doctorate. I am not so certain that Neivamyermex opacithorax is a Keystone species in our South Eastern region. It clearly is not as significant in any means as Eciton burchellii is or the other myriad Dorylinids of the Americas in what is understood a keystone species is with regards to its place in the biology and relationships of other species of arthropods and non-arthropods.  I would NOT encourage anyone to keep this genus just to add to their "Species I Currently Have" list  because for me Proceratium is harder to maintain than this N. opacithorax colony....finding the right spider eggs: age, size etc is not easy!!!  

Edited by PurdueEntomology, May 23 2020 - 3:50 PM.

[Squidkid]

From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them
From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them

[PurdueEntomology]

From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them
From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them

 

From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them
From My personal experience Here where I Live They do not appear to be a Keystone Species. Not to say They aren't Important. My experience seems to show that They are more or less like Tapinoma sessile. Nomadic and numerous. But There presence seems inconsequential to The areas they roam through. Again. This is not a fact. Just based on My experience with Them

Tapinoma sessile is a fugitive species known to shift nest locations, Neivamyrmex though is not fugitive but actually nomadic.  Their colonial structuring, foraging vs raiding , the queens of Neivamyrmex being dichthadiiiform ergatoidic as opposed to the queens of Tapinoma  and numerous other differences to be listed here are enough to be cautious about drawing parallels and 'convergences' between these two disparate genera.  The fact that Neivamyrmex will elicit flight responses from various species they prey upon unlike the responses Tapinoma sessile elicits from geographically sympatric species seems to bare weight  Neivamyrmex as a genus has definitely acted as a selector of phenotypic expressions in many other ant species in which it engages. 

Edited by PurdueEntomology, May 23 2020 - 5:37 PM.

[Squidkid]

Agreed bad parrallel. My point point was more on the impact of there surroundings. Tapinoma at least The ones I witness here in Arkansas are very oppertunistic about Nesting sites and are more of a scavenger and They don't appear to affect anything at least not in a detrimental way. In other words there presence or lack there of does not constitute any major change in the surrounding area. And if I interpreted what You said correctly, Neivamyrmex at least the Species I have witnessed (Opacithorax and Nigrescens) don't appear much different in that account. Basically I don't think They are a Keystone Species. They are Important and do Play a roll. But where I am at. They ecosystems that They are absent from don't appear to be in distress.
I hope I conveyed My point correctly.
I am not trying to be rude or opposing in anyway. Just spreading My knowledge

[PurdueEntomology]

Agreed bad parrallel. My point point was more on the impact of there surroundings. Tapinoma at least The ones I witness here in Arkansas are very oppertunistic about Nesting sites and are more of a scavenger and They don't appear to affect anything at least not in a detrimental way. In other words there presence or lack there of does not constitute any major change in the surrounding area. And if I interpreted what You said correctly, Neivamyrmex at least the Species I have witnessed (Opacithorax and Nigrescens) don't appear much different in that account. Basically I don't think They are a Keystone Species. They are Important and do Play a roll. But where I am at. They ecosystems that They are absent from don't appear to be in distress.
I hope I conveyed My point correctly.
I am not trying to be rude or opposing in anyway. Just spreading My knowledge

I appreciate what you are saying but firstly, as with most ants and their interactions with their ecosystems are only known in fragments and bits so it is not possible to say that impacts made are insignificant or less or what, we just do not know.  Secondly, as I noted, Neivamyrmex most definitely has affected the evolutionary outcomes of numerous species of ants from various genera across their co-shared geographic ranges. It is not important to look for "distress" or "major impacts" because what we consider significant to major are subjective and based on our current fragmented confirmed understandings. I am not trying to be long winded in this and just as another caveat Tapinoma sessile is the species I am currently doing my masters on and in the past year I have read many studies on it as a species so I am quite familiar with it and what I can confirm is we know little about it overall and it is a species all of us reading this thread probably have had encounters with unlike Neivamyrmex in all its various species.