16 replies to this topic

[zantezaint]

I've looked everywhere, but everywhere I go, it seems to be a private land, a county park, a state park, a preserve, or a reservation. Is there anywhere I can legally collect driftwood or stone without a permit in Southern California?

[FSTP]

I don't have an exact answer for you but have you tried asking permission from the private land owners? I've had quite a bit of luck doing that up here in central cali. 

[ANTdrew]

I guess CA may be a lot stricter on this than where I live, but isn’t more of a don’t ask, don’t tell kind of thing?

[zantezaint]

You are probably right. Cali is way too strict. I can't blame the government though, we have 40 million people living in this state, versus Virginia with 8.5 million. If people just took what they want, natural resources would be depleted. Yeah, the "don't ask don't tell," is what I thought so too. I will have to give phone calls to private land owners a try.

Edited by zantezaint, May 1 2020 - 7:26 AM.

[RushmoreAnts]

Here in SoDak, there are less than a million people, meaning we can fill the back of a truck up with wood and bring it home, and no one (the government, that is) would care. Passerbys might wonder, though............ 

[BugFinder]

I've looked everywhere, but everywhere I go, it seems to be a private land, a county park, a state park, a preserve, or a reservation. Is there anywhere I can legally collect driftwood or stone without a permit in Southern California?

Usually not in federal parks, state parks, or county parks.  If you have a county beach, city beach, or BLM land it's usually ok.

[BugFinder]

It seems like a petty crime, but it can be painful if you get caught and catch a case.  it's not worth it, there are plenty of places where you can collect legally.

[dspdrew]

There are tons of places to collect in CA. We have miles and miles of National Forest and BLM land where it's perfectly legal.

[zantezaint]

There are tons of places to collect in CA. We have miles and miles of National Forest and BLM land where it's perfectly legal.

I don't know about Angeles National Forest, but Cleveland National forest requires a permit that requires 8 months in advance to get in order to recreationally collect legally.

[Solenoqueen]

More on this, how do you know which specific areas within National or BLM land require collecting permits and which don't?

[dspdrew]

 

There are tons of places to collect in CA. We have miles and miles of National Forest and BLM land where it's perfectly legal.

I don't know about Angeles National Forest, but Cleveland National forest requires a permit that requires 8 months in advance to get in order to recreationally collect legally.

 

 

Source please.

[zantezaint]

 

 

There are tons of places to collect in CA. We have miles and miles of National Forest and BLM land where it's perfectly legal.

I don't know about Angeles National Forest, but Cleveland National forest requires a permit that requires 8 months in advance to get in order to recreationally collect legally.

 

 

Source please.

 

Sorry, it was 8 weeks in advance.

 

https://www.fs.usda....stelprdb5214085

 

I also sent them an email almost 2 weeks ago on where I can get the forest product permit, but I haven't gotten a reply yet.

Edited by zantezaint, May 3 2020 - 2:54 PM.

[dspdrew]

 

 

 

There are tons of places to collect in CA. We have miles and miles of National Forest and BLM land where it's perfectly legal.

I don't know about Angeles National Forest, but Cleveland National forest requires a permit that requires 8 months in advance to get in order to recreationally collect legally.

 

 

Source please.

 

Sorry, it was 8 weeks in advance.

 

https://www.fs.usda....stelprdb5214085

 

I also sent them an email almost 2 weeks ago on where I can get the forest product permit, but I haven't gotten a reply yet.

 

 

Oh I see you're talking about plant "forest products" specifically. Well, I have read in a number of places that the laws are so poorly written and confusing for collecting insects, that eventually, after receiving so many emails from people, some top USFS official put out a memo making it very clear what the differences are between recreational collecting and special use collecting, and that recreational collecting does not require a permit. Looking at that page, it is not clear which kind of noncommercial collecting they are referring to, because it's not even specified. The bullet point that says "No commercial collecting allowed. For all requests, include a copy of the study design, list of requested species, quantities, and a map of proposed collecting locations." doesn't even make sense. The second part of that I assume was supposed to be a separate bullet point, because why in the world would they go into detail about the requests if it's not allowed at all. Assuming that it is just further discussion about noncommercial collecting, it sure looks to me like they are referring to special use collecting.

 

Either way, right below all of that, it looks like firewood collecting permits are completely waived until May 15th, so just plan on using your drift wood to keep you warm, and maybe change your mind later.

[zantezaint]

It says that for special use:

 

• If you will need to occupy, use or build on Forest Service land for personal or business purposes, whether the duration is temporary or long term.
• If there is a fee being charged or if income is derived from the use.
• If an activity on those lands land involve individuals or organization with 75 or more participants or spectators.

 

I don't think if I collect for terrariums or vivariums, I wouldn't need the special use. It seems like I do need the recreational permit for collecting though, but I am sure most people get away with collecting without a permit. Not knowing the fine amount or even facing jail time is a scary thought though.

[BugFinder]

It says that for special use:

 

• If you will need to occupy, use or build on Forest Service land for personal or business purposes, whether the duration is temporary or long term.
• If there is a fee being charged or if income is derived from the use.
• If an activity on those lands land involve individuals or organization with 75 or more participants or spectators.

 

I don't think if I collect for terrariums or vivariums, I wouldn't need the special use. It seems like I do need the recreational permit for collecting though, but I am sure most people get away with collecting without a permit. Not knowing the fine amount or even facing jail time is a scary thought though.

I don't think it would be jail time.  Just a misdemeanor conviction (depending on how much of it they catch you with) and a fine.  The fines can be pretty punishing.

[dspdrew]

I don't see anything about needing a "recreational permit" to collect. Are you talking about an Adventure Pass? Those are basically parking permits that they tried to force people to buy in order to park in the National Forest, until someone filed a lawsuit and won. Now they can only require one if you use any bathrooms, trashcans or picnic tables. If I remember right, the fine is the price of a one day pass.

[zantezaint]

I see what you mean Drew. So driftwood normally requires a permit but not until the May 15th because of the situation, and plants require the botanical collecting permit, but rocks are free for all?