39 replies to this topic

[RushmoreAnts]

I guess that solves that one.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

lol, true

[dspdrew]

I'll give him another day to change it.

[Vern530]

I was just recently told that you cannot ship any solenopsis

Please read the rules for posting in this subforum.
 
Offers involving Solenopsis geminata, Solenopsis invicta, Solenopsis richteri, and Solenopsis saevissima are not allowed if either person is in California.

I was just recently told that you are not allowed to sell or ship any solenopsis sp. do you know if that’s true drew?

[TennesseeAnts]

Please read the rules for posting in this subforum.
 
Offers involving Solenopsis geminata, Solenopsis invicta, Solenopsis richteri, and Solenopsis saevissima are not allowed if either person is in California.

I am in favor of this rule.

[Manitobant]

You can still get xyloni. Virtually the same ant just a native species.

[Mdrogun]

Please read the rules for posting in this subforum.

 

Offers involving Solenopsis geminata, Solenopsis invicta, Solenopsis richteri, and Solenopsis saevissima are not allowed if either person is in California.

If you don't mind me asking, why is this this the rule? I thought that Solenopsis invicta and Solenopsis richteri were the only ones federally quarantined? Besides, Solenopsis geminata is native to California. They're in the same species complex as Solenopsis xyloni.

[ponerinecat]

I was just recently told that you cannot ship any solenopsis

Please read the rules for posting in this subforum.
 
Offers involving Solenopsis geminata, Solenopsis invicta, Solenopsis richteri, and Solenopsis saevissima are not allowed if either person is in California.

I was just recently told that you are not allowed to sell or ship any solenopsis sp. do you know if that’s true drew?

 

Natives are fine. Molesta, amblychila, xyloni, etc.

[zantezaint]

Changed.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

good, now you won't get a warning. I think you should have adequate help now

[dspdrew]

Besides, Solenopsis geminata is native to California.

No they aren't

[Mdrogun]

 

Besides, Solenopsis geminata is native to California.

No they aren't

 

Could you cite me a reference for this? They are found all the way through Mexico, and there has even been a native variant of the species identified in Florida. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be native in California.

[Martialis]

 

 

Besides, Solenopsis geminata is native to California.

No they aren't

 

Could you cite me a reference for this? They are found all the way through Mexico, and there has even been a native variant of the species identified in Florida. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be native in California.

 

 

The Mojave, Sonora, and Rockies all function as excellent barriers to anything not adapted to life there.  And in Mexico, S. geminata lives in the wetter parts. Florida's on the other side of the entire continent, too.  With an entirely different climate.

 

Those are a few reasons why they aren't native.

Edited by Martialis, March 3 2020 - 3:41 PM.

[Mdrogun]

 

 

 

Besides, Solenopsis geminata is native to California.

No they aren't

 

Could you cite me a reference for this? They are found all the way through Mexico, and there has even been a native variant of the species identified in Florida. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be native in California.

 

 

The Mojave, Sonora, and Rockies all function as excellent barriers to anything not adapted to life there.  And in Mexico, S. geminata lives in the wetter parts. Florida's on the other side of the entire continent, too.  With an entirely different climate.

 

Those are a few reasons why they aren't native.

 

The species is known to be present natively in Baja California and Arizona. While I am definitely less confident they are native there than I was before, and I don't want to rule out those records as mis-IDs, I don't think it's impossible. Cross-referencing climates from Texas where they are well known to exist, there are definitely pockets in California where they could exist. They are known to happily inter-breed with Solenopsis xyloni so much so that many of the specimens found are likely not pure Solenopsis geminata or Solenopsis xyloni in Mexico. 

 

Just a few years ago one of the larger Camponotus sp. in the United states, Camponotus ca-02, was found. I don't think it's impossible to imagine that Solenopsis geminata, that may or may not be hybridized, could exist somewhere in California. As well be of native origin.

Edited by Mdrogun, March 3 2020 - 4:13 PM.

[gcsnelling]

As far as I know all the material which was supposed to be geminata from California were other species which had been misidentified or samples picked up during plant quarantine inspections. For what it is worth the source of this information was my father, who knew a thing or two about California ants.

[Mdrogun]

As far as I know all the material which was supposed to be geminata from California were other species which had been misidentified or samples picked up during plant quarantine inspections. For what it is worth the source of this information was my father, who knew a thing or two about California ants.

I do definitely think that a large portion, or dare I say all, of the Solenopsis geminata present in California currently are exotic.

 

Even in the East, where the climate would be easier on them in terms of survival, Solenopsis invicta and the other invasives present have practically reduced them to a cryptic species. I've spent a decent amount of time in the gulf region, as well as Florida, and was only able to find them in the southernmost localities of Florida myself.

 

From what I understand, Solenopsis invicta does better in the cooler sub-tropical regions and is able to practically push Solenopsis geminata out.

 

It's just there are records of them so close to California, literally within ~50 miles, and the climate there is likely survivable for them. It seems wrong to say that any and all Solenopsis geminata found in the state are exotic. It'd likely have to be proven through genetic testing 

Edited by Mdrogun, March 3 2020 - 4:28 PM.

[gcsnelling]

Within 50 miles? What locality?

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

50 miles is quite a large radius and Florida is on the other side of the continental US, so there is an exceedingly large possibility that geminatia isn't native to Cali...

[Mdrogun]

Within 50 miles? What locality?

I was looking at the specimen record on antmaps.org in Baja California. Like I mentioned earlier, as is the case in Arizona, the legitimacy of these records is not bulletproof.

[Martialis]

oops. Deleted.

Edited by Martialis, March 4 2020 - 10:42 AM.