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What can we do to help native ant species struggling against non natives?!?!


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#21 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 14 2020 - 5:11 PM

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introduce tough native species to infested areas. for example, you could transplant solenopsis xyloni or geminata, which are both aggressive natives that can defend against argentines.  A better option, however, would be to collect and transplant a colony of a brood raider such as neivamyrmex, which could decimate invasive nests, especially myrmicines like megacephala or invicta.

Prenolepis imparis and Solenopsis molesta should be legalized and released en mass into infested areas. The former kills Argentines, the latter kills RIFAs. I think at least S. molesta is native to most of the states which RIFAs have invaded. Yet due to their estivation strategy, I don't see how P. imparis would significantly damage any native populations, either.


Edited by AntsDakota, January 14 2020 - 5:13 PM.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#22 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 14 2020 - 5:15 PM

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introduce tough native species to infested areas. for example, you could transplant solenopsis xyloni or geminata, which are both aggressive natives that can defend against argentines.  A better option, however, would be to collect and transplant a colony of a brood raider such as neivamyrmex, which could decimate invasive nests, especially myrmicines like megacephala or invicta.

The Neivamyrmex would almost certainly die due to being outside of their established territory.

 

A great example of this happening is in my region of South Carolina. A paper published in 2009 by Timothy Davis from Clemson lists the counties specific ants were found in in the state. I'm in Richland, and the paper lists both Neivamyrmex nigrescens and opacithorax as being collected from this area, along with a few other rare species such as Aphaenogaster mariae. However, this paper was published back when Brachyponera chinensis was considered a low threat species that Myrmecologists assumed would either be confined to small, isolated populations or be wiped out altogether be some of the stronger invaders and natives. However, due to the fact that Brachyponera become active very early in the anting season, they are able to wipe out native species before colonies are fully active and ready to fight back, leading to Brachyponera chinensis' eventual spread from northern South Carolina to all over the southeast wherever termites are present. They have been able to force out many native ant species (especially forest dwellers like Camponotus and Lasius) and have become the dominant species in some areas. While Neivamyrmex are strong, there are some species not even they can take out. Brachyponera are able to force out or even downright decimate Neivamyrmex bivouacs before they become active during the spring. Combining this with the fact that Linepithema humile are exploding in population in the southeast, as Neivamyrmex do not stand a chance, and are forced to areas where the species are less prevalent. Also, Neivamyrmex do not found like other ant species. As opposed to true queens, Dorylines have heavily modified workers known as Dichthadiigynes, more commonly known as ergatoid queens (more accurately referred to as ergatoid gynes, as they are not true queens). Colonies only produce a few Dichthadiigynes a year, and as such, the species is very slow to spread. Colonies produce more males, but even those are rarely seen in colonies, and only a handful are produced every year. Neivamyrmex would not be very good at eradicating exotics, despite their aggressive and ravenous nature. Plus, it is never a good idea (except in VERY rare instances as a last resort) to introduce a new species to an area to combat an invader, especially not something as ravenous as a Doryline. There's a reason why other ants fear them, evacuating their nests as quickly as possible when Dorylines are nearby. I mean, say the purposefully introduced species eradicates the target species, a very unlikely scenario. Then what? It's simple, they would move on to target other native species. Say Eciton or Dorylus was introduced to California to eradicate Linepithema, and say the miraculously they manage to win. The Dorylines wouldn't just give up and die, they would continue on to attack other species, eventually becoming the new, potentially worse, Linepithema. Introducing a new species to deal with the invaders should only be used as a last resort and only if the targeted species is the only thing the invader will touch, such as is the case with the introduction of Pseudacteon flies into the southeastern US to deal with Solenopsis invicta. So yeah, introducing Neivamyrmex would not be an effective way to deal with invaders.


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#23 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 14 2020 - 5:18 PM

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introduce tough native species to infested areas. for example, you could transplant solenopsis xyloni or geminata, which are both aggressive natives that can defend against argentines.  A better option, however, would be to collect and transplant a colony of a brood raider such as neivamyrmex, which could decimate invasive nests, especially myrmicines like megacephala or invicta.

Prenolepis imparis and Solenopsis molesta should be legalized and released en mass into infested areas. The former kills Argentines, the latter kills RIFAs. I think at least S. molesta is native to most of the states which RIFAs have invaded. Yet due to their estivation strategy, I don't see how P. imparis would significantly damage any native populations, either.

 

Prenolepis imparis are already everywhere, same with Solenopsis molesta.


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#24 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 14 2020 - 5:18 PM

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Which is why they should be legalized. Colonies could be bred and released into infected areas, to help proliferate populations which already exist there. I heard that RIFAs have a difficult time even establishing colonies where S. molesta thrives, probably due to their secretive predatory behaviors, which do damage to larger colonies as well. And I don't know if all of you have read of what P. imparis can do to Argentines, but.....


Edited by AntsDakota, January 14 2020 - 5:21 PM.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#25 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 14 2020 - 5:24 PM

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Which is why they should be legalized. Colonies could be bred and released into infected areas, to help proliferate populations which already exist there.

I do get that, I was just kinda pointing it out. However, like releasing any species, it could have consequences. For instance, Prenolepis imparis is actually broken up into several different subspecies. While unlikely, it is possible that diseases could be spread around between the subspecies, and if hybridization occurs and there is eventually very little genetic variation, a single genetic disorder could do quite the number on the species.


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#26 Offline Manitobant - Posted January 15 2020 - 10:28 AM

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introduce tough native species to infested areas. for example, you could transplant solenopsis xyloni or geminata, which are both aggressive natives that can defend against argentines. A better option, however, would be to collect and transplant a colony of a brood raider such as neivamyrmex, which could decimate invasive nests, especially myrmicines like megacephala or invicta.

The Neivamyrmex would almost certainly die due to being outside of their established territory.
A great example of this happening is in my region of South Carolina. A paper published in 2009 by Timothy Davis from Clemson lists the counties specific ants were found in in the state. I'm in Richland, and the paper lists both Neivamyrmex nigrescens and opacithorax as being collected from this area, along with a few other rare species such as Aphaenogaster mariae. However, this paper was published back when Brachyponera chinensis was considered a low threat species that Myrmecologists assumed would either be confined to small, isolated populations or be wiped out altogether be some of the stronger invaders and natives. However, due to the fact that Brachyponera become active very early in the anting season, they are able to wipe out native species before colonies are fully active and ready to fight back, leading to Brachyponera chinensis' eventual spread from northern South Carolina to all over the southeast wherever termites are present. They have been able to force out many native ant species (especially forest dwellers like Camponotus and Lasius) and have become the dominant species in some areas. While Neivamyrmex are strong, there are some species not even they can take out. Brachyponera are able to force out or even downright decimate Neivamyrmex bivouacs before they become active during the spring. Combining this with the fact that Linepithema humile are exploding in population in the southeast, as Neivamyrmex do not stand a chance, and are forced to areas where the species are less prevalent.
what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

Edited by Manitobant, January 15 2020 - 10:33 AM.


#27 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 15 2020 - 11:11 AM

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introduce tough native species to infested areas. for example, you could transplant solenopsis xyloni or geminata, which are both aggressive natives that can defend against argentines. A better option, however, would be to collect and transplant a colony of a brood raider such as neivamyrmex, which could decimate invasive nests, especially myrmicines like megacephala or invicta.

The Neivamyrmex would almost certainly die due to being outside of their established territory.
A great example of this happening is in my region of South Carolina. A paper published in 2009 by Timothy Davis from Clemson lists the counties specific ants were found in in the state. I'm in Richland, and the paper lists both Neivamyrmex nigrescens and opacithorax as being collected from this area, along with a few other rare species such as Aphaenogaster mariae. However, this paper was published back when Brachyponera chinensis was considered a low threat species that Myrmecologists assumed would either be confined to small, isolated populations or be wiped out altogether be some of the stronger invaders and natives. However, due to the fact that Brachyponera become active very early in the anting season, they are able to wipe out native species before colonies are fully active and ready to fight back, leading to Brachyponera chinensis' eventual spread from northern South Carolina to all over the southeast wherever termites are present. They have been able to force out many native ant species (especially forest dwellers like Camponotus and Lasius) and have become the dominant species in some areas. While Neivamyrmex are strong, there are some species not even they can take out. Brachyponera are able to force out or even downright decimate Neivamyrmex bivouacs before they become active during the spring. Combining this with the fact that Linepithema humile are exploding in population in the southeast, as Neivamyrmex do not stand a chance, and are forced to areas where the species are less prevalent.
what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

 

I'm not sure if there would even be any way to introduce them in any significant number. Releasing alates is an impossible feat, colonies are rare, so it's not like you could collect a few hundred of them and release them, and even of you were able to, the sudden explosion of Neivamyrmex may inadvertently effect native species.


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#28 Offline Vendayn - Posted January 15 2020 - 1:30 PM

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I've raised native ants and released them with success. So far have good success with re-introducing Pogonomyrmex (2 years now) and Forelius pruinosus/mccooki (5 years now). Monomorium ergatogyna are the most successful I've introduced (7 or 8 years), and one of very few native ants that can win 99% of their fights against argentine ants and drive them out of entire areas. They've spread all over, though they are kept at bay by all the Brachymyrmex patagonicus around here. 

 

However all the above ants hibernate in the winter. Where as Solenopsis invicta/Argentine ants/Brachymyrmex never hibernate. And here, Solenopsis invicta had so many alates last August that a pool had to be closed and drained out because there must been 10s of thousands of alates that clogged a drain. I saw so many alates could barely see the water. They are gonna be everywhere later this year sadly, they kicked out the Argentine ants in a huge area down at the river. I think they are the supercolony variety too. If even 1% of the queens survive, they'll probably actually outnumber the Argentine ants.


Edited by Vendayn, January 15 2020 - 1:34 PM.

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#29 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:28 PM

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Which is why they should be legalized. Colonies could be bred and released into infected areas, to help proliferate populations which already exist there.

I do get that, I was just kinda pointing it out. However, like releasing any species, it could have consequences. For instance, Prenolepis imparis is actually broken up into several different subspecies. While unlikely, it is possible that diseases could be spread around between the subspecies, and if hybridization occurs and there is eventually very little genetic variation, a single genetic disorder could do quite the number on the species.

I guess they think S. molesta is several separate closely related species, so then legalize the fugax complex (of course no foreign imports). Due to the similarity of the species, they most likely wouldn't affect relationships with native species and native S. cf. molesta or other fugax species. And since they're different species, I doubt they'd crossbreed and cause genetic problems.


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#30 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:30 PM

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I think they are the supercolony variety too. If even 1% of the queens survive, they'll probably actually outnumber the Argentine ants.

Well, they don't have true supercolonies, though. They aren't always polygynous to my knowledge (but oftentimes), and you most certainly couldn't merge a colony from Texas and a colony from Florida.


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#31 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:33 PM

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what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

 

As long as we're using non native ant species to combat other non native ant species (which often doesn't work, btw), we might as well use some other more common army ant genus such as Eciton.


Edited by AntsDakota, January 15 2020 - 5:33 PM.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#32 Offline PacificNorthWestern - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:35 PM

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I don't think moving ants that aren't native into another habitat is going to be a valid solution and might create bigger problems...



#33 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:39 PM

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 (which often doesn't work, btw), 

 


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#34 Offline ANTdrew - Posted January 15 2020 - 5:53 PM

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I’m so glad I don’t live in California. No offense.
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#35 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 15 2020 - 6:24 PM

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what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

 

As long as we're using non native ant species to combat other non native ant species (which often doesn't work, btw), we might as well use some other more common army ant genus such as Eciton.

 

That's an even worse idea than importing Neivamyrmex to areas where they aren't already native! Do you have any idea how destructive Eciton can be? There's a very good reason why there is no species in the rainforest that doesn't fear them (except for Atta, but even they have to worry about Nomamyrmex). If Eciton was ever introduced to warmer areas such as Florida and southern California, they would likely take over, and cold eventually develop more cold-hardy variants and start to spread northward. I know a lot of you anters dream of the day when tropical species are introduced to northern areas - I myself have fantasized about it on more than one occasion - but we all have to ask ourselves if it's really worth potentially wiping out beloved natives just so some cool looking exotic can take over. I know they're cool now, but after a while, I can guarantee you it would get boring. A great example of this would be Solenopsis invicta. Seriously, do you guys know just how amazing Solenopsis invicta can be? They truly are incredible ants. Bicolored, highly aggressive and territorial, and they have some really amazing habits. Same with Brachyponera chinensis. I mean, I know a lot of you want large Ponerines, but trust me, after a while, they can get boring and downright annoying, especially when they sting you and you don't even notice until your arm looks like Popeye. Trust me when I say that Eciton would get boring and annoying after a while, especially considering the fact that they often break into houses (usually just to remove other pests, but still). If Eciton was introduced, people would eventually start developing special army ant poisons, just like they do for Solenopsis invicta.


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#36 Offline Martialis - Posted January 16 2020 - 6:37 AM

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Phorid flies have seen immense success against fire ants. We should look outside subfamily Formicidae for any real solution.  

 

Seeing their close relatedness worldwide (In invasive areas), I would think that use of a pathogen could be possibly employed against them. That strategy would have quite a few drawbacks and possibly a few catch-22's attached, however.

 

 

https://royalsociety.../rsbl.2011.1014  

 

This article gives an interesting picture. The authors' surveys revealed that populations had decreased by about 40% in surveyed areas, and that the mean lifespan of an invasive argentine colony in New Zealand was about 14 years.  They also discussed the collapse of Anoplolepis gracilipies in the Seychelles:

 

The shrinking and eventual disappearance of invasive species populations, including invasive ant populations, has historically been observed elsewhere [3]. For example, yellow crazy ant (Anoplolepis gracilipes) populations in the Seychelles declined dramatically over time and in some areas disappeared [10]. The reasons for the population collapse of Argentine or yellow crazy ant populations are not yet known. 

 

They think it may be because of inability to adapt or to the new environments or due to the rather inbred nature of invasive colonies. Whatever the case, it would be interesting to see a similar study completed in the US or other areas where they are ubiquitous. 


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#37 Offline ponerinecat - Posted January 16 2020 - 3:01 PM

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what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

 

As long as we're using non native ant species to combat other non native ant species (which often doesn't work, btw), we might as well use some other more common army ant genus such as Eciton.

 

That's the worst idea I've heard. Know why Eciton move so often, more than any other doryline? It's because they kill and eat so much they need to move to new foraging grounds or they will starve. That's fine in a rainforest with huge biodiversity and density, but few other environments could support ants like those. The entire system would collapse. Eciton wouldn't even bother with argentines, they would go for birds.


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#38 Offline AnthonyP163 - Posted January 16 2020 - 3:20 PM

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I slightly disagree with the idea of releasing captive colonies or their alates for two main reasons. 

 

1. Bad genes - The queen which you have caught and nurtured to success might have bad traits, but they were not necessary in captivity. Allowing her to pass on her genes to alates which would then go mate with others. This mixing of bad genes with good genes could hurt the population and waste some queens that would've otherwise been more successful or waste a male that would've mated with a better queen. 

 

2. Disease/parasites - There could be some unseen/unnoticed parasite or disease in your colony that may spread to the ecosystem, therefore hurting them.

 

Although the intentions may be good, the outcome could be negative. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 


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#39 Offline gcsnelling - Posted January 16 2020 - 3:54 PM

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2. Disease/parasites - There could be some unseen/unnoticed parasite or disease in your colony that may spread to the ecosystem, therefore hurting them.

 

Although the intentions may be good, the outcome could be negative. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Sadly the pro release crowd do not believe this is even possible, usually bellowing the words "Prove it, prove it". although I know of no studies directly related to ants, there have been studies on butterflies and I believe some bees as well both showing that  disease transmission is indeed a danger.


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#40 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted January 16 2020 - 4:56 PM

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what about in places like Florida where neivamyrmex don't hibernate? N. Opacithorax is found in the keys and preys on tramps like invicta.

 

As long as we're using non native ant species to combat other non native ant species (which often doesn't work, btw), we might as well use some other more common army ant genus such as Eciton.

 

That's the worst idea I've heard. Know why Eciton move so often, more than any other doryline? It's because they kill and eat so much they need to move to new foraging grounds or they will starve. That's fine in a rainforest with huge biodiversity and density, but few other environments could support ants like those. The entire system would collapse. Eciton wouldn't even bother with argentines, they would go for birds.

 

Like I was saying earlier, I'm guessing most of the people saying they think we should release tropical species into an area to take care of Linepithema and Solenopsis only think it would be a good idea because they see an opportunity to keep their favorite exotics without a permit. Let me say it one last time, it is a horrible idea and will only make things worse for the environment!


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