21 replies to this topic

[P0rcelain]

hello! i am new to ant keeping and have an idea for a cheap formicarium i would like to get advice on. i am yet to start a colony, but i am hoping for the best possible living conditions for any ants i am planning to raise in the future!

 

some information to know before i go on:

- i am from new south wales, australia. i am unsure if i am allowed to be posting here about this, so if this is all wrong please gently redirect me.

- the ants i have an interest in keeping are Leptomyrmex erythrocephalus and Polyrhachis ammon. i have seen erythrocephalus and ammon has been sighted nearby, though i have not personally seen any just yet.

- both of these i believe are semi-claustral species, so any pointers in that regard will be especially helpful. erythrocephalus is also wingless. i am aware that many on the site will not have anything to say of these particular species because they are only native to australia, but i am hoping someone might have experience with species that behave similarly (erythrocephalus is a honeypot ant, which are found world wide, and from what i can tell ammon is simply a fairly normal example of a semi-claustral, sand/forest dwelling ant.) if anyone knows how 'nuptial flight' in wingless ants works, i would love to know all about it.

- there are other pets in the house, one of which is a cat. i have a fear of this cat in any living condition where the formicarium has an open top for obvious reasons.

 

with that out of the way, here is my idea.

 

i specifically want a formicarium that will allow for my ants to dig while still being visible, not bothering them too much and giving them nice terrain to explore (i really like closed ecosystems.) achieving this in a large terrarium style setup is usually costly and eliminates your ability to view the colony in their nest. to combat this i have a simple (and hopefully working) idea: use a large plastic container that is clear and has a very tight lid as the walls of the formicarium. in the lid cut a large rectangle space to be covered and screwed on with aluminium fly screen (or any other tough material the ants will not be able to chew through. this still feels a bit wrong to me. will metal fly screen work? i still feel like they could chew through it or get poisoning or something). to increase visibility, i want to put something inside the container before dirt goes in that would in theory keep the ants from digging in the centre of the formicarium. red film would go over the outside at the same height of the dirt.

 

any suggestions? anything i missed? would this work effectively or completely fail? i feel like there is a reason why i have not seen anyone do this yet. please feel free to judge as harshly as you need to. a humane, working living condition for my ants goes above anything else. i have been doing research nonstop for the past few days and i really cannot stress enough how much i want to get this right. will draw up a diagram upon request.

[ANTdrew]

You’re on the right track. If you look in the archives on this site, you can see exactly how dspdrew, the site’s creator, made just such a formicarium.

[P0rcelain]

o wow! i will take a look immediately

 

EDIT: this is the one, correct? http://www.formicult...017/?hl=dspdrew

Edited by P0rcelain, September 22 2019 - 3:25 AM.

[ANTdrew]

Exactly!

[P0rcelain]

here is something i had not thought of: growing plants in the same formicarium. it was something i had in the back of my mind that i wanted to do, but upon thinking a bit harder on it i realise that it is impossible to have plants in a formicarium without encouraging the ants to begin nesting in unfavourable locations. succulents could be used to grow plants in difficult places, and creeping plants could be grown over the layer intended not to be nested in, however.

[P0rcelain]

ok, i have a new concept:

 

- obtain a large, acrylic container with a tight lid (may alternatively consider glass, anything i can get in large sizes that does not cost more than $50 aud.)

- use steel or other metal mesh on the top, if extra ventilation is required

- use ant-safe packing foam, if such a thing exists, and coat in grout to prevent digging or chewing. foam is being used in the first place because it is light and easily carvable into any desired shape, making it simple to fit as a central block

- wrap outside in red film

- fill like it is done in this video. i am not sure yet if water will result in a collapse or if this will be dangerous for ants just yet. i am hoping that by using a drainage layer the water will simply evaporate as it needs to.

 

 

the advantage of using plants like succulents is that they require soil that is well drained and do not need much attention. similar can be said about creepers. though i fully understand plant choice will be dependant on which ants i am housing and what their soil conditions are typically like.

 

YET ANOTHER EDIT BECAUSE I THINK TOO MUCH: i have had a realisation. dspdrew had problems with figuring out the right soil consistency and getting the soil to stay up (i think) and i have just realised plants could actually solve this in this style set up. plant roots are known to stabilise dirt and clump dirt together. this could potentially improve visibility while also keeping the ants nests stable. though the right plant will have to be chosen, because it will have to be ok with tight spaces. grass comes to mind, as do a few species of crawling succulents. i have some zebra cactus which i could possibly plant inside this theoretical setup. it keeps soil quite tightly packed so i have high hopes. being forest species, both of the ants of my interest would also benefit from rooted soil. presumably, anyway. ok, i promise that is the last edit.

Edited by P0rcelain, September 22 2019 - 4:47 AM.

[P0rcelain]

the cheapest price i can find is for glass fish tanks without lids or filters. i am in the process of attempting to get my hands on an old one if i can. in other news, i have discovered in research that styrofoam can be a huge wild card for ants and tends to deteriorate quickly in conditions that ants find favourable. because this is a setup i will be requiring to last as long as possible, i am investigating other materials other than styrofoam and grout. i have seen ytong mentioned a lot. also plaster. i am going to do more research into this but if anyone has any profile on the strength and weight of these materials i would love to know. ytong especially. it looks like a bit of a heavy material, which is not ideal if i intend to have a brick of it in the middle of a glass box.

[P0rcelain]

New Proof of Concept

ok so, i have been really doing a lot of homework and i have a new proof of concept, complete with crappy diagram and estimated costs.

 

Core Concepts

the basic idea for this new iteration is that filling an entire block of space costs more money than just having that space open. it is essentially a redesign that makes everything visible while allowing maximum comfort to the ants and providing the cheapest cost.

 

Materials & Costs

here are the materials i am currently most considering using, their costs, and what the total cost will be. all costs in AUD:

20L Fish Tank: $29 || Shipping: $10 || Total: $39

ABS Plastic Sheet: $10 || Shipping: Free

Red Acrylic Sheet: $8.59 || Shipping: Free

2.5kg Plaster of Paris: $5 || Shipping: 'ill probably pick it up myself'

 

Total: $52.59 || Shipping: $10 || Total Total: $62.59

 

Diagram & Game Plan

below is a very simple diagram i have sketched up detailing what exactly i am thinking of doing. the costs above are simply for this set up, no gravel or dirt is included nor plants, tank cover or lid. i will get to all that eventually. my intention is to lay these plastic sheets (cut to size) into the tank and use the plaster to connect them, covering each sheet entirely with the plaster, maybe coating it with some pebbles before it sets to give it more of a pavement look. the exception is the red acrylic, which i will have mostly uncovered by the plaster to allow you to see any nesting at the very back of the tank. this set up will also be good for the ants because, with the help of some plants and sticks, it will give them much more foraging space than what they would have if they were to live in a filled set up. there would be verticality. my budget is around $80-90, so i have used around 2/3s of it on just the bare, empty formicarium. but i feel confident that i will be able to figure something out for the rest for just under $30. if not, i am sure it would do to simply fill the sides of this set up with dirt as is and coat the top of the tank with baby powder, so i am pretty happy with this design.

[P0rcelain]

suggestions are welcome as always.

 

EDIT: i might actually opt for more acrylic instead of using ABS because its cheaper and doesnt bend easily, so the plaster should last longer on it. it feels super wrong because acrylic is clear and i would just be filling it in, though. maybe i could have more red windows on the inside of the tank, like i plan to have on the back? i am unsure.

Edited by P0rcelain, September 25 2019 - 6:02 PM.

[ANTdrew]

So this is basically a three sided version of Drew's dirt tanks? The foraging area is in the middle with the nesting area along the three walls? I think that's a pretty clever idea. Silicone might be better for gluing together your plastic sheets.

[P0rcelain]

yes, that is exactly it. thank you for the suggestion. atm i am thinking about skipping out on the plastic in the side walls completely and simply casting plaster around the acrylic sheet and casting the side walls entirely out of plaster, but i am unsure because plaster is also just really porous and in general kind of terrible for ant keeping.

 

can you think of any cheap ways with silicone i can do something similar?

Edited by P0rcelain, September 26 2019 - 1:33 PM.

[P0rcelain]

ant-safe check

this?

suppliers website

according to them, its just polymerised beeswax and linseed oil but california apparently decided it causes cancer and reproductive harm?

i suppose i should also ask if it will do the trick on plaster that will be constantly exposed to water.

i feel a bit like plaster is not worth all the hassle in this kind of moist environment.

Edited by P0rcelain, September 26 2019 - 2:07 PM.

[ANTdrew]

Look into using hydrostone or grout. They are superior to plaster for ant keeping.

[P0rcelain]

aaa thanks a lot!

[P0rcelain]

sigh

i really should be asking this directly, since i have been running around in circles trying to find answers to no avail. so i am going to finally do that.

is it wise to seal stuff for ants? for example, should i seal my grout? it seems impossible to find sealant for cheap and i am worried about mould outbreak, as water will regularly be making contact to the grout.

and worse, a lot of sealants i can easily find are toxic.

every time i make a google search it assumes i am using grout for bath tiles or something. it is starting to get incredibly frustrating.

Edited by P0rcelain, September 27 2019 - 2:22 AM.

[DDD101DDD]

sigh

i really should be asking this directly, since i have been running around in circles trying to find answers to no avail. so i am going to finally do that.

is it wise to seal stuff for ants? for example, should i seal my grout? it seems impossible to find sealant for cheap and i am worried about mould outbreak, as water will regularly be making contact to the grout.

and worse, a lot of sealants i can easily find are toxic.

every time i make a google search it assumes i am using grout for bath tiles or something. it is starting to get incredibly frustrating.

Aquarium silicone could work probably.

[ANTdrew]

Grout is very mold resistant which is why it is superior to plaster. You wouldn’t need to put any sealant on it.
Your ants would be nesting in soil, so I highly recommend getting some springtails to live in the nest with your ants. They will act as a clean up crew and eat any mold. A certain amount of mold is inevitable and it rarely is harmful unless it really gets out of hand.

[P0rcelain]

 

sigh

i really should be asking this directly, since i have been running around in circles trying to find answers to no avail. so i am going to finally do that.

is it wise to seal stuff for ants? for example, should i seal my grout? it seems impossible to find sealant for cheap and i am worried about mould outbreak, as water will regularly be making contact to the grout.

and worse, a lot of sealants i can easily find are toxic.

every time i make a google search it assumes i am using grout for bath tiles or something. it is starting to get incredibly frustrating.

Aquarium silicone could work probably.

 

i will keep this material in mind for the future, but it seems rather expensive so for now i will probably stick with grout.

 

Grout is very mold resistant which is why it is superior to plaster. You wouldn’t need to put any sealant on it.
Your ants would be nesting in soil, so I highly recommend getting some springtails to live in the nest with your ants. They will act as a clean up crew and eat any mold. A certain amount of mold is inevitable and it rarely is harmful unless it really gets out of hand.

ok. i was wondering this, because at one point i just started to look at how people tile with grout and one person actually started saying 'stop sealing your grout' because usually grout just sucks up all the moisture and it evaporates eventually.

i will get back about springtails when i am up to that.

 

thank you both so much for the advice! it has helped a lot.

[ANTdrew]

If your budget is tight, here’s what I suggest:
1. Find your queen and raise her in a test tube. When the colony grows, simply place this tube in a small acrylic container. This is the classic tubs and tubes set up. It isn’t sexy, but it actually is the best way to raise most kinds of ants.
2. When the colony gets big, fill up your whole tank with soil. You won’t be able to observe as much, but your ants will love it and it is still a ton of fun. Remember you’ve gotten to observe the whole founding stage in your test tube, which is the only really interesting phase anyway. Just my thoughts - take ‘em or leave ‘em.

[P0rcelain]

back to second guessing myself.

i have bought two fish tanks and two red acrylic sheets.

to be perfectly clear, i am aware that i could just immediately start filling up the tanks with rocks, dirt and charcoal and call it a habitat. maybe with some plants in there.

but i really want to try this idea. it is not the wisest, since i have never owned ants before. but what can i say, i am ambitious.

 

materials for the walls are in contention again. i have the lid sorted out, the fish tanks both came with their own lids and i can simply coat the edges of the walls in fluon to prevent ant escapes.

for the walls, i have a few ideas but all of them have problems and i am starting to feel more and more lost. so i figure now is the time to contact some ant experts and see what they have to say on the matter.

 

idea 1:

wood. if i get some simple ply wood, cut it into shape and cut a little 3mm crevice into each piece, i can easily set up a nice, standing set of 3 walls which will be functional without any additional adhesive. it would be good for the ants because it would retain moisture, giving them an even better moisture gradient, and it would encourage pill bug populations. sounds pretty great imo. and it would be pretty hecking cheap.

the problem?

wood rot. idk if this is really a problem, but i feel like it could cause bad fungi to grow, and it could smell bad? that would not be ideal.

 

idea 2:

plastic. i can try to get some plastic sheets cut and glue them together with silicone. it would last a long time, be very durable, and functional.

the problem?

it would cost more than wood and i also have no [censored] clue where i can get plastic sheets cut at the perfect size i need them.

 

idea 3:

grout. just. make the entire thing out of grout. it is a tried and true material for ants.

the problem?

i do not know if grout would be strong enough to withstand being made into walls like that. usually it is used in conjunction with something sturdy like tiles, and i know for a fact it is fairly brittle. i also do not have any professional equipment to cast it with. on the plus side, it may end up being cheaper than plastics.

Edited by P0rcelain, January 12 2020 - 5:58 PM.