41 replies to this topic

[PTAntFan]

i hate golf. can't believe no one's mentioned the waste of water that golf courses in the desert must be. i don't know much about the courses because of my dislike for the game.

 

and i'm all for fewer argies and more Pogonomyrmex too.

[BugFinder]

I doubt anything fizzled. Most likely they gave into the tyranny, as it is what most Americans do.

 

Tyranny?  Aren't you being a bit dramatic?  I'm not sure how you could define laws that comply with our constitution, and created by people elected in free and fair elections as tyranny.  When you live in a dense urban environment, you have to make some concessions to preserve your neighbors rights (like the value of their home next to yours) that you don't have to make living in a less dense area.

 

If you want complete freedom, you have to move to unincorporated areas of Idaho.  If you want to be able to earn a decent living, you move to California.  There are sacrifices to be made either way.

Edited by BugFinder, May 8 2015 - 8:56 PM.

[dspdrew]

http://dictionary.re.../browse/tyranny
 

Four, five, and six all fit my description just right in my opinion.
 
4. Oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler.
5. Undue severity or harshness.
6. A cruel or harsh act or proceeding; an arbitrary, oppressive, or tyrannical action.

[BugFinder]

we probably have different ideas on what Cruel and harsh mean.  I can't imagine a law prohibiting you from having inoperable cars parked in your yard bringing down the home values of your neighbors being described as cruel or harsh.  

 

When I hear the terms cruel or harsh, or tyranny, I think of the law in NIgeria which outlaws homosexuality and requires the death penalty for violating that law, or laws in the middle east the require cutting off your hand for theft, and death/torture for blasphemy.

 

Perhaps our lives have become too privileged when we start insisting that CC&R's are harsh, or that eating meat is murder.

Edited by BugFinder, May 8 2015 - 9:06 PM.

[dspdrew]

i hate golf. can't believe no one's mentioned the waste of water that golf courses in the desert must be. i don't know much about the courses because of my dislike for the game.

 

and i'm all for fewer argies and more pogos too.

 

80 percent of the water in California is guzzled up by giant agriculture companies and they want us to go without showers.

[BugFinder]

That's a valid criticism, and reflects the kinds of problems we need to work out in our democratic system of negotiating, compromise, and voting, which is totally different than a tyranny.  Would you not agree?

[PTAntFan]

 

i hate golf. can't believe no one's mentioned the waste of water that golf courses in the desert must be. i don't know much about the courses because of my dislike for the game.

 

and i'm all for fewer argies and more Pogonomyrmex too.

 

80 percent of the water in California is guzzled up by giant agriculture companies and they want us to go without showers.

 

you'll have to explain the argument blaiming agro to me. don't we consume the goods they produce? I think there's a  basic assumption that people are going to keep eating.

[dspdrew]

They are not producing the only food we consume. If we are running out of water, why does that automatically mean our (the people using a tiny fraction of the water) water goes first? I could never imagine any other situation where in the worst drought in history it's perfectly reasonable to export (and that's effectively what they are doing) 80 percent of our water.

 

Take almonds for example. I don't think we are going to starve without almonds. They use 10 percent of our water alone. 70 percent of them are exported.

 

http://www.businessi...lifornia-2015-3

[cpman]

They are not producing the only food we consume.

As far as I know, something like 70 or 80 percent of produce in the USA IS produced in California. I think that we would all get pissed off by having produce prices go up unreasonably. Just in my refrigerator, I've got strawberries, blueberries, apples, kale, celery, and carrots from California. I do agree that almond production should go down though. It is unreasonable to use 1 gallon of water to produce 1 almond.

I do understand your point of view though. One of the biggest reasons the storage reservoirs for Austin are only 30% full is because they've been sending tons of water downstream to grow rice on the coast. Water restrictions here are based on the water level in these reservoirs, so we still have restrictions despite the rain. I know lots of people who are upset by how because of rice farms to the south, they can't water their lawns.

Speakig as someone who has family ties in California (I lived there as did my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and more generations), I'm sad to see that fantastic state in such an awful drought. I do agree that a lot of their agriculture is unsustainable and that it is a bit unreasonable to use the vast majority of their state's water when they have a higher population than any other state. However, as someone out of the state, I would be upset to have food prices go up.

Edited by cpman, May 9 2015 - 7:58 AM.

[dspdrew]

Simply put: When there is a terrible drought, it should be bad for everybody, not just the people without political connections.

[PTAntFan]

Agro has paid the price in CA during droughts.  Look a little deeper into the issue and you'll find that.  Agro does get hit with restrictions.  One report I read stated 17,000 jobs were lost do the cinching of agro's water consumption belt and a number of farms turned to dustbowls.

[Vendayn]

Homeowners associations are the worst. My parent's customer said she can't even plant a single thing without their approval and the whole neighborhood's approval. We'd never live in a neighborhood with any HOA associated with it.

 

Though, dad said if we did (we won't), and they charged us for a brown lawn. And then got charged by the government for using too much water. He'd sue the HOA and then get the government involved, and then the HOA can fight the government over it. Guess most people don't go that far.

 

But that wouldn't happen, cause we'd make sure no HOA was involved in wherever we move

[dspdrew]

Agro has paid the price in CA during droughts.  Look a little deeper into the issue and you'll find that.  Agro does get hit with restrictions.  One report I read stated 17,000 jobs were lost do the cinching of agro's water consumption belt and a number of farms turned to dustbowls.

 

http://www.thedailyb...-s-drought.html

[dspdrew]

Homeowners associations are the worst. My parent's customer said she can't even plant a single thing without their approval and the whole neighborhood's approval. We'd never live in a neighborhood with any HOA associated with it.

 

Though, dad said if we did (we won't), and they charged us for a brown lawn. And then got charged by the government for using too much water. He'd sue the HOA and then get the government involved, and then the HOA can fight the government over it. Guess most people don't go that far.

 

But that wouldn't happen, cause we'd make sure no HOA was involved in wherever we move

 

They're for control freaks that aren't happy unless they're telling others what to do.

[PTAntFan]

 

Agro has paid the price in CA during droughts.  Look a little deeper into the issue and you'll find that.  Agro does get hit with restrictions.  One report I read stated 17,000 jobs were lost do the cinching of agro's water consumption belt and a number of farms turned to dustbowls.

 

http://www.thedailyb...-s-drought.html

 

Here is the article I was referencing.  I have no argument to counter the suggestion that some water intensive crops consider relocation, but I have no idea what the implications are for those businesses.  I guess my fundamental POV is that businesses and citezens should share the responsibility for sustainability.  Their use of %80 of water consumption is irrelevant to me.  They use what is necessary to run their business and we use what is necessary to live.  If there is a shortage, changes should be adopted by both.

 

http://www.edf.org/b...-real-solutions

Edited by PTAntFan, May 9 2015 - 9:11 PM.

[dspdrew]

Let me know when agro is cutting 25 percent.

[BugFinder]

 

 

Take almonds for example. I don't think we are going to starve without almonds. They use 10 percent of our water alone. 70 percent of them are exported.

 

 

 

Solid point.

[BugFinder]

 

That's true.

 

 

 I think that we would all get pissed off by having produce prices go up unreasonably. 

 

Pissed of or not, we all have to pay for the water that grows the food we eat.  During a drought, the food we buy is going to cost more because the water will cost more to obtain or because we have to grow less because we have less water.   That's just a fact of life.

Simply put: When there is a terrible drought, it should be bad for everybody, not just the people without political connections.

 

I totally agree with that!

[BugFinder]

 

 

 

They're for control freaks that aren't happy unless they're telling others what to do.

 

 

Or, more accurately, aren't happy when their neighbors are are ruining the value of their property.  You don't have to buy property that is part of an HOA.  If you're worried about your neighbors ruining your property value, you buy into a HOA.  If you don't care as much about your property value, and value your independence more, you don't.  It's a free country.   

 

It's not like you are just thrown into an HOA against your will.  You have to buy a property is part of one to be affected by it.

[BugFinder]

 I have no argument to counter the suggestion that some water intensive crops consider relocation, but I have no idea what the implications are for those businesses. 

 

Almonds take years from planting to first harvest.  It's not as simple as just planting them over there instead of over here.  If we lose the Almond business in CA, it may never come back.