22 replies to this topic

[BugFinder]

Can we all describe what kind of founding chambers we use and where we obtained them?  I'm using a Talus I received from tarheel ants.  I have an extra talus for my next queen, and another on the way because we're heading into ant season.

 

How many founding chambers do you think I'll need for one ant season?

[dean_k]

I don't see Talus as an idea founding chamber because you can't forcefully relocate your ants easily.

 

A much cheaper version, THA growth chamber, is better because you can relocate the queen at will.

Edited by dean_k, March 11 2015 - 4:57 PM.

[BugFinder]

The THA growth chamber just looks like a talus without the nest, just the outworld, is that correct?

[dean_k]

It has a nest that can be opened. It's basically a budget version of Talus.

[BugFinder]

I think I'm going to order 5 of them tonight.

[dean_k]

From my own personal experience, my Lasius colony did great in THA growth chamber as founding chamber and I moved her into Evolution chamber. Evolution chamber is basically a THA growth chamber with 4x bigger outworld and 2x bigger nest.

 

I like bigger outworld part because in growth chamber, queen and nanitics don't know the different between the nest and the outworld. For them, the entire thing is their nest. But with evolution chamber, ants know which is outworld and which is their nest.

[Miles]

I think I'm going to order 5 of them tonight.

You should order them through one of their new deals.

[Foogoo]

I think I'm going to order 5 of them tonight.

 

My suggestion is to start with one and see how you/your ants like it. I'm not a fan of the Growth Chamber and none of my ants seemed to like it. So far they've liked the small Talus as it gives them somewhere to hide and they seem more secure with the ceiling. The species I've tried in the GC all end up huddling between the water tower and wall and they don't have anywhere to run off to hide when I need to add food/water/etc.

 

I'm going with test tubes this time since you can adjust the chamber size, and I'm reasoning that the founding queen would feel more secure in a small chamber at first.

[Miles]

This looks like a really good value: http://tarheelants.c...package_1D.html

Foogoo: I'm curious, what species did you have in your growth chamber, and what size was it? Also, what were the light conditions?

Here's my evaluation of test tubes and my review of the Talus, which I wrote some time ago.

 

I have been keeping ants for about four years, and one of my favorite things to do is to show them off. I have done about a dozen school presentations for area elementary, middle, and high school classes, and my own ants are always the main attraction. I often receive questions regarding how I attain my ant colonies. Historically, I have given the questioner a quick overview of the life cycle of ants and how queen ants found new colonies, and it is at this time that I bring out a test tube with a founding queen and her brood. The viewer may ask about the ant herself and her behavior, but before long, they’ll be asking about the mold on the cotton, the trash pile at the entrance, or the dirtiness of the glass. This is not only embarrassing, but it has made me question how a system that receives almost universal support for being the optimal way to allow queens to found their colonies has such monumental and obvious shortcomings. Over the past year or so, as objections to the practicality and effectiveness of test tubes setups began to surface, I started to look critically at how the test tube setup works... Or more so, how it doesn’t work. Essentially, the only reason a test tube setup allows a queen to found a colony in any way is that it provides moisture and a minimal amount of security. Ants are very hardy creatures, and the toughest of them are going to survive an environment such as a test tube. But just because some survive and found colonies, does not mean that the system is providing optimal conditions or colony growth. Test tubes are prone to molding, which endangers the health of the colony and severely impacts the aesthetics of the setup. They are virtually impossible to feed in, due to their shape and accessibility. They allow some viewing and photography opportunities, but also have limitations in that aspect. The glare and curvature of a test tube’s glass can wreak havoc on the best intentions of a would-be photographer. A test tube also has the added “feature” of a shape that allows for frequent rolling if even minimally bumped. Historically, the test tube has provided a seemingly ideal environment for founding colonies. This method has been adopted by ant keepers and myrmecologists worldwide, with what once seemed to be remarkable success. I, however, challenge the true effectiveness of the test tube setup and the claim that they provide ideal conditions for founding queens and colonies. The summary of my findings and reasons for this conclusion are listed as follows, in no order of importance:

 

·         Proneness to excessive health-threatening (to ants and humans both) mold and fungal growth

 

·         Lack of natural surfaces for cocoon formation, brood resting, and simple traction

 

·         Lack of realistic ability to feed the queen/colony without causing or catalyzing mold growth

 

·         Unsuitable for semi-claustral founding due to lack of separate foraging area and waste storage space

 

·         Poor Aesthetics

 

·         Need to be frequently replaced, causing stress upon the inhabitants in the effort to get a colony to move to a new tube

 

·         Inconsistent sizes and often lack of compatibility with tubing

 

·         Poor conditions for photo and video taking

 

·         Inaccessibility for basic care functions

 

·         Fragility - Can easily be cracked or shattered. Also poses a danger to young children (shards of glass)

 

·         Lack of colonies reaching their full growth potential during their time in a test tube setup

 

What I see in the Tar Heel Ants’ Talus formicaria is a new alternative to an archaic method of raising ants. The Talus provides a mold-resistant environment that replicates the founding chambers of claustral and semi claustral ant queens. It has a built-in foraging area, allowing feeding of semi-claustral species and fledgling colonies. In addition to this, the Talus provides the backup moisture source of a built in THA water tower, which provides a constant source of water, as do test tubes. Basically, to every issue I have listed above, the Talus has a solution. There is only one con that I can think of with this formicarium - the lack of an external port for hydration. If this was included in the product, then it would face no further criticism by myself. To give it credit, however, a test tube is even more inaccessible in how moisture can be replenished. In short, the Talus allows for easy feeding, cleaning, and viewing of your ants in a safe and healthy environment. I trust Tar Heel Ants and the Talus product with two of my favorite queens, of the species Odontomachus clarus. I would not trust a test tube with these queens and I believe that the investment in proper formicaria is the one thing I wish I would have had the opportunity to take years ago, above all else. I urge each and every ant keeper to give the Talus, Growth Chamber, or Devolve chamber founding products a chance to revolutionize how they keep ants. I am proud to be a supporter of the Talus product and I remain an even firmer critic of the raising of ants in test tubes.

Edited by Miles, March 11 2015 - 6:14 PM.

[Foogoo]

IIRC, different Pogonomyrmex, Linepithema, Crematogaster, and probably a few others. Right now, I have the 4 infertile(?) Dorymyrmex alates in the GC. They're hanging out in a group in the foraging area. I usually keep my colonies covered with a towel. The thing with the GC is when it's feeding time, they don't have anywhere to scurry off to so they always end up running around in a panic. I've considered covering the nest tower? circle? house? with foil, but that would defeat the purpose of observing them.

 

Mine is also very prone to mold for some reason, despite not over watering the substrate, using a feeding dish and giving it a good alcohol cleaning and thorough drying between colonies.

 

I do have a mini-hearth in transit (though probably not ideal for founding) and THA has that new companion nest which looks like a good in-between of the Talus and GC.

 

Edit: I took another look at the GC product page and videos and those colonies seem happy, so I might have just had a few bad experiences but I'm willing to give it another try. And I'm not highly experienced, but my intuition is the same as Miles regarding test tubes not being ideal long-term. My plan is to let the queens settle down and maybe die if that's their intention, but move them to something more natural once their brood begins to develop.

Edited by Foogoo, March 11 2015 - 8:45 PM.

[dean_k]

Growth chamber is better for fasting queens to raise nanitics. And in my limited experiences, I find that the ants feel the whole thing as their nest instead of the actual nest itself.

 

Evolution chamber is far better than Talus in my opinion. It's about the same price as well.

[Etherwulf]

Actually, perhaps it might be better to consider the test-tube's ubiquity in ant-keeping.

 

They are cheap, offer good visibility, occupy little space and are easy to setup. This means that it is possible to keep dozens of colonies at once without breaking the bank or your back. Why would you want to keep dozens of colonies? 

 

Simple. Because keeping multiple colonies increases your chances of getting a successful colony. Out of all the queens that you catch, it is more than likely that a considerable amount will not thrive so it is desirable to obtain more than one queen. The problems with test tubes such as rolling or molding can be solved relatively easily. For the rolling, I do my work in a tray lined with cloth to prevent them from any drop-related mishaps. Molding is inevitable and can be reduced by not overfeeding and removing uneaten food diligently. 

 

Also, I found that feeding them is tricky in the beginning but perfectly manageable once you get the hang of it. If the colony is so large that they would rush out when you unstopper their test-tube, move them to a foraging container. 

 

Despite conventional opinions, it is entirely possible to raise semi-claustral species in test-tubes. I have done it with Odontomachus and a trip to the german forums would reveal that people have succeeded in raising semi-claustral species in test-tubes. 

 

The GC in itself is really just a petri-dish with holes in the lid and the side with another smaller one to provide moisture. Frankly, I do not think that it is worth its asking price because it is entirely possible to recreate the set-up for significantly less cost. All you need would be to buy 10-packs of plastic disposable petri-dish (available on ebay) and drill a 1mm hole in the lid for watering whatever you choose to use as a moisture source (cotton, substrate, soil, etc). Once they about to outgrow their petri dish, move them to an appropriately sized formicarium.

 

Quah over at his blog http://termitesandants.blogspot.com/, has raised many a colony with nothing more than a few petri dishes and plastic containers. Furthermore, he gets clear, quality photos. As far as I know, what he does is raise them in a petri dish with wet cotton and then dump them in a closed plastic container with wet cotton. Of course, his main objective is to photograph them for his blog but it is worth thinking about how cheap it can be to raise colonies successfully.

 

Of course, different species will have different requirements so what may work for someone else may not work for you. Nonetheless, I would recommend you experiment with your own methods to find what works for you. 

Edited by Etherwulf, March 12 2015 - 5:44 AM.

[dean_k]

It depends on how much one is going for anting and what aspect of anting they want to enjoy.

 

In my case, I want little of formicarium building ordeals (Unless it's for P. Imparis). All I want is observe ants and record accordingly with ample pictures & video.

 

Obviously, building on your own is going to cost less. But a product isn't just about the material cost because there is labor charge (And R&D charge if there is any).

Edited by dean_k, March 12 2015 - 6:01 AM.

[dspdrew]

A test tube also has the added “feature” of a shape that allows for frequent rolling if even minimally bumped.

 

I find egg crate foam to help a lot with this problem. It also allows you to stack them and keep them organized.

 

 

 

That said, I am actually getting pretty tired of test tubes myself. Like Miles said, lighting them can be a problem. I can never use the light on my microscope when viewing ants in a test tube, and instead have to rely on a lamp off to the side because of the glare that's pretty much always there due to them being round.

 

Also, most ants seem to think the cotton ball is substrate and continually try to dig into it, causing shreds of cotton to end up all over the place and tangled in their brood. This was really a big problem with Acromyrmex, as many of the queens ended up ripping their fungus pellets to pieces trying to move them around while they were tangled in the cotton. I of course mostly solved this problem a while back by using the fingers of cotton gloves to cover the cotton balls, and it has been working great.

 

 

 

The only problem with this is it makes setting them up a little more time consuming, and when setting up tons of them, it really starts to add up.

 

One thing I do like about test tubes though, is the very simple but affective hydration system they have. The passive air pressure-regulated dispensing concept has been used for ages in many different types of water dispensers, not only for pets but humans too (e.g. Sparklets water coolers). Test tubes can last for months as long as the water does not start growing too much bacteria. I think I am getting spoiled though, because even that now is not good enough for me. I really am sick and tired of setting up new test tubes and moving colonies into them. This is why I can't wait to finish my formicariums that will allow replenishing of the water by simply pulling out the tank and refilling it. Obviously I'm not going to have hundreds of these, nor would anyone buy hundreds of any of these other founding setups, so I think this is where another pro comes in; test tubes are only 30 cents.

 

In conclusion, for me I will continue to use test tubes initially (for most species), until the colony has a hand full of workers and seems promising, then at that point, instead of moving their test tube into a foraging container like I've been doing, I'll move them into one of my formicariums.

 

 

But a product isn't just about the material cost because there is labor charge.

 

This is true, and I think often overlooked.

[BugFinder]

 

Evolution chamber is far better than Talus in my opinion.

 

Why do you feel that way?

[dean_k]

 

 

Evolution chamber is far better than Talus in my opinion.

 

Why do you feel that way?

 

 

It's because of one aspect. The 4x bigger outworld. I find that ants like bigger outworld better. When outworld is of a certain size, ants seem to know which is their nest and which is outworld, meaning when in panic, queens don't simply wander out to what we consider outworld.

 

 

[Crystals]

I tend to use test tubes as most species in my location do very well in them.  Out of all those in the picture below, I lost two queens during hibernation (as far as I can tell, the test tube had nothing to do with it).  Easy to clean, simple to set up, easy to move ants between them, and very easy on space.  Yes, test tubes do have their downsides, mostly involving visibility after 2 months or so - but after 2 months I think they deserve fresh water anyways.  I have seen an occasional flood when bringing a test tube out of hibernation, but I have only had it happen 3 times and never lost a colony to it.  I use a bit of clay to prevent test tubes from rolling around.

 

For fussier queens, I do make 1-2 chambered grout nests.  I usually end up doing this with parasitic queens, as they have a bad tendency to stick the donated pupae onto the wet cotton...

 

I have tried petri dishes with grout and sand, but watering them every day or so simply doesn't work with my schedule, and I find my ants do better if the founding queen is able to get a good drink whenever she wants until she gets enough workers.

 

 

[dspdrew]

Is that your cooler?

[dean_k]

Pretty sure that is her wine cooler.

[Crystals]

Is that your cooler?

Yep, that is my wine cooler. I seem to have a distinct lack of wine in there though....

I am down to 30 or so colonies now, and most are out of hibernation so I have far more room now.  My limit on colonies and size of nests is determined by the size of the cooler.