65 replies to this topic

[Acutus]

I think honey bees shouldn't be focused on.  While they are beneficial to the plants we have, native bees need our help and honey bees just out compete them by a long shot.

 

I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions on the matter; I'm conflicted on honey bee keeping vs. native bees, due to the usefulness to crops and usefulness to native ecosystems as a whole, respectively.

 

Native Bees and honey bees pollinate different things. Like Almonds? Need Honey Bees also native bees are harder to commercially use as pollinators. They are very effective in apple orchards from what I understand though.

Basically, Honey aside, Humans have made themselves dependent on the services of the Euroasian and African Honey bee. so many commercial crops absolutely depend on pollination from them. Native bees won't fill those gaps.

Also there are barely any wild, long term, honey bees left. Introductions of certain mites have reduced the Honeybees survival in the wild. they can be treated though by people who keep them.

[B_rad0806]

I rarely hear about beekeeping 

[gcsnelling]

Actually native bees will fill the void fairly well when given the chance, Honey bees are actually quite poor pollinators and only succeed due to their large numbers which very effectively exclude natives from the bounty. The only people really dependent on honey bees are the bee keepers themselves.

[dspdrew]

I think it's a good idea actually. I just was so busy at the time I read the post, I planned to revisit the idea as soon as I had time. We do have a subforum for termites, so bees would make sense too, being that they're all social insects. There seems to be a lot of interest in anything from the Hymenoptera or Blattodea orders in this community. We have had a few posts about people trying to keep wasps and hornets too in the past.

[Acutus]

Actually native bees will fill the void fairly well when given the chance, Honey bees are actually quite poor pollinators and only succeed due to their large numbers which very effectively exclude natives from the bounty. The only people really dependent on honey bees are the bee keepers themselves.

Problem being from a commercial standpoint, filling the void fairly well, isn't an exact enough thing to ensure a successful crop. The only commercial crop I know of that has used Native Solitary bees with good success is Apples. Mostly because 700 Orchard Mason Bees can better pollinate Apples  than 10,000 European Honey Bees.

I agree we have created the dependence mostly because there is a by product of using Honey bees and that is Honey itself. Not only do commercial beekeepers get paid for pollination services but they get their own crop of Honey to sell.

[dspdrew]

I added a bee section.

[dermy]

Actually native bees will fill the void fairly well when given the chance, Honey bees are actually quite poor pollinators and only succeed due to their large numbers which very effectively exclude natives from the bounty. The only people really dependent on honey bees are the bee keepers themselves.

I agree with this, it certainly wouldn't happen overnight, but I know from some places that Bumble bees can be commercially reared in laboratory settings, their colonies don't get as big as Honey bees so that would be an issue, obv. as long as Honey Bees are around they will be the "face of the bees" but if the honey bees ever died off it wouldn't be the end of days. It for sure would take quite a while to play "catch up" because we aren't exactly the best at preparing for the worst, we usually wait till (censored) hits the fan and then figure it out from there.

 

The honey, well there's always that high fructose corn syrup they are always raving about.........

[AntPhycho]

I added a bee section.

Thank you very much dspdrew! 

[gcsnelling]

 

 but if the honey bees ever died off it wouldn't be the end of days.

 

The honey, well there's always that high fructose corn syrup they are always raving about.........

 

 

Well the bee keepers might think so as they would no longer be eligible for the govt. handou.. er honey subsidy they get now so our hard earned tax dollars could go to some other deserving boon doggle perhaps that tunnel in the san gabriels mtns to suck all the smog into the desert.

 

However having said that the bee keeping forum is not necessarily a bad idea.

Edited by gcsnelling, April 28 2019 - 3:53 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

Yeah, as cool as honey bees are, I hate them. Not native, out compete native bees, and way less efficient.

[Hayashi]

Thumbs up for adding a bee section. I’m also interested in native bees.

[Nylanderiavividula]

Native bees can not support our global agronomy that supports the human population...period. Hating Apis mellifera ssp. is ingorance manifest and possibly the product of snowflake-teachings. Look up the levels of beekeeping pre-WWII for the United States alone and ask yourselves, "Were native pollinators better off then than they are now?" The question is rather rhetorical...of course they were. That time was before the advent of industrial pesticides and fertilizers as we know them and before the super-clean monoculture big agriculture we know now. The amount of hives owned back then was nearly double what it is now. Honey bees DO help provide our varied diet thanks to their inexorable associations with angiosperms and our grasp on how to take advantage of that. I am definitely NOT anti-natives...but claiming that honey bee competition is a major factor in native pollinator declines is turning a blind eye towards the history of honey bees in America and towards the multitude of other factors contributing heavily to pollinator declines. Beekeepers generally pay close attention to these things because we are commonly beset by naysayers with fractioned "facts". And as for any subsidies...as a taxpayer I can't tell you how much more I would rather help commercial beekeepers out than I would like to spend on some of the other JUNK my tax dollars go towards... However, there ARE a lot of excellent bee forums out there with beesource.com probably being the largest and most-active.

[Acutus]

Native bees can not support our global agronomy that supports the human population...period. Hating Apis mellifera ssp. is ingorance manifest and possibly the product of snowflake-teachings. 

 

OMG I nearly fell off my chair!!!!

[FSTP]

I'l say I'm a fan of bees and have pursured keeping bees but I'm not a fan of there being a bee keeping sub forum. This is an ant keeping forum!!!

[gcsnelling]

 

Native bees can not support our global agronomy that supports the human population...period. Hating Apis mellifera ssp. is ingorance manifest and possibly the product of snowflake-teachings. 

 

OMG I nearly fell off my chair!!!!

 

 

 

I hardly think I am ignorant or naive or a product of "snowflake teachings" with regard to this topic. My entomological background goes back more than a couple of years and I have with my own beady little eyes seen the impact that money bees have had on native bee populations.  Yes there are indeed other factors, I never denied that.

[AntPhycho]

I'l say I'm a fan of bees and have pursured keeping bees but I'm not a fan of there being a bee keeping sub forum. This is an ant keeping forum!!!

It is also a termite keeping forum, and finally another social insect has joined the forum- BEES!

[Rstheant]

Maybe they (beekeepers) can sell honey along with ants as food!!

[TennesseeAnts]

Native bees can not support our global agronomy that supports the human population...period. Hating Apis mellifera ssp. is ingorance manifest and possibly the product of snowflake-teachings.

NATIVE bees will always be the best at pollinating NATIVE plants. There is a reason why NATIVE bees are so good at pollinating NATIVE plants. They evolved with them.

(I broke the quote!)


Edit: And another thing: Honey bees pollinate plants by accident. Native bees NEED to collect pollen for their young, and are therefore much more efficient pollinators than honey bees will ever be. Honey bees only collect the nectar.

Edited by dspdrew, May 18 2019 - 10:35 AM.

[AntPhycho]

Native bees can not support our global agronomy that supports the human population...period. Hating Apis mellifera ssp. is ingorance manifest and possibly the product of snowflake-teachings.

NATIVE bees will always be the best at pollinating NATIVE plants. There is a reason why NATIVE bees are so good at pollinating NATIVE plants. They evolved with them.

(I broke the quote!)


Edit: And another thing: Honey bees pollinate plants by accident. Native bees NEED to collect pollen for their young, and are therefore much more efficient pollinators than honey bees will ever be. Honey bees only collect the nectar.

 

Actually, honey bees also "NEED" pollen for their young. Pollen is one of the only natural sources of protein bees can collect therefore it is vital that honey bees collect it for their young. We bee keepers usually call it "bread" as you can see it piled in parts of the hive ready for "nurse bees" to use. Honey bees could not live without pollen therefore (if this is your argument) honey bees are just as good pollinators as native bees.    

[TennesseeAnts]

There are multiple studies that all show the same result: Honey bees are terrible pollinators. They are like the RIFA of the bee world, only they are "beneficial to humans because we like honey", so they don't get the same amount of hate that RIFA does.I

Bottom line: We don't need honey bees to survive. Come to think of it, we don't need any bees at all! More jobs!

Edited by Ant_Dude2908, May 18 2019 - 9:25 AM.