11 replies to this topic

[marcel]

Hello,

 

I am still not sure if my small colony is Pogonomyrmex occidentalis or subnitidus. 

The queen is pure red with hardly any noticeable color differences at her body segments, same goes for workers.

They were found near Mexico.

 

In size the queen is just 1 mm ( 0,039 inch) smaller than a Pogonomyrmex rugosus queen.

 

I already went on antwiki.org for Pogonomyrmex keys and took microscopic pictures. The only 2 species left seem to be Pogonomyrmex subnitidus and Pogonomyrmex occidentalis. The prominent spines, possible size, mandibles, thorax, etc. point out to be one of the 2. Pogonomyrmex salina came close but has less prominent spines.

 

Here the pictures of a dead newborn nanitic (not one of the brood boosted ones) that did not fully color out and looks yellowish the real color is red.: 

 

 

 

 

very outstanding spines:

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some pictures of the queen and her brood, she was brood boosted so the old workers have not been used for the microscopic ones, so I can't guarantee the larger workers seen there are the same species:

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a picture in large and zoomed in of Pogonomyrmex rugosus and those mysterious queens in size comparison:

 

 

Edited by marcel, September 22 2017 - 6:21 AM.

[Scrixx]

Here's that comparison from my Pogonomyrmex rugosus (top) and Pogonomyrmex subnitidus (bottom).

 

[Kujawaorchids]

Here some pics of one of my occidentalis. I think yours might be occidentalis.

 

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis by Mikhail kujawa, on Flickr

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis by Mikhail kujawa, on Flickr

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis by Mikhail kujawa, on Flickr

Edited by Kujawaorchids, September 21 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[marcel]

My queen looks more like the Pogonomyrmex occidentalis one unless subnitidus is red too. The subnitidus queen looks more browinsh/orange-red to me. Could be the light or so. 

 

How populous do both species grow in nature by the way? I am new to Pogonomyrmex, never saw a nest entrance or complete conlony of any Pogonomyrmex sp. apart from a long time ago when I travelled to California and got stung by a Pogonomyrmex worker in my finger by accident and confused it with a cut from a piece of broken glass cause the sting pain was the same feeling as a glass or razorcut. But I never saw that colony except 2 workers with 1 that stung me.

[gcsnelling]

Near Mexico where? P. occidentalis will have an offset basal tooth.

[marcel]

Guys I think I am certain now that this is Pogonomyrmex occidentalis. I got also more informations now from the guy that got me this queen. They were found at Carlsbad North, New Mexico

 

I am now almost sure this is Pogonomyrmex occidentalis between the workers antenna is the same pattern on mine and the occidentalis. Subnitidus on the other hand differs with that pattern.

 

The head of my worker with marked pattern between the antenna and offset tooth visible: 

 

 

And here 1 picture from Antwiki of each of the possible species:

 

1. Pogonomyrmex subnitidus head with missing pattern:

 

http://www.antwiki.o...5721_head_1.jpg

 

2. Pogonomyrmex occidentalis head with same pattern:

 

http://www.antwiki.o...5718_head_1.jpg

Edited by marcel, September 22 2017 - 6:19 AM.

[Scrixx]

My queen looks more like the Pogonomyrmex occidentalis one unless subnitidus is red too. The subnitidus queen looks more browinsh/orange-red to me. Could be the light or so. 

 

How populous do both species grow in nature by the way? I am new to Pogonomyrmex, never saw a nest entrance or complete conlony of any Pogonomyrmex sp. apart from a long time ago when I travelled to California and got stung by a Pogonomyrmex worker in my finger by accident and confused it with a cut from a piece of broken glass cause the sting pain was the same feeling as a glass or razorcut. But I never saw that colony except 2 workers with 1 that stung me.

 

I'd say P. subnitidus is more orange/orange-red than just red.

 

The wild P. rugosus colonies I've seen are big. The same colonies I caught my queens from had hundreds sitting outside the nest entrance while hundreds more walking around carrying seeds. They walk maybe up to 50 yards away from the nest entrance and there's just workers everywhere. You actually can't go anywhere without stepping on some. 

 

Edited by Scrixx, September 21 2017 - 3:19 PM.

[Scrixx]

I don't think it's P. subnitidus. Yours are almost as large as P. rugosus and the color doesn't really match the P. subnitidus that I have.

[marcel]

It seems very likely to be Pogonomyrmex occidentalis now. Wow what impressive ants.

 

I brood boosted my Pogonomyrmex rugosus that arrived with just 2 larvae, with 2 pupae from my Pogonomyrmex (occidentalis?) colony and just 1 worker made it after hatching the other was used to identify my Pogonomyrmex. 

 

I heard once Pogonomyrmex has at least 1 worker or more they have a much better chance and most die because of not getting any workers. Let's see how tough it will be if my Pogonomyrmex colony grows fast I consider taking 2-3 more pupae and giving it to my rugosus as support. I did actually not know that the rugosus queen would really accept my workers but she did and the 1st worker died not by the queen but something was wrong with it.

 

I can't wait to see my colonies grow. I read this about Pogonomyrmex occidentalis: Mature colonie consist of up to 20,000 workers and one queen. A queen can live up to 40 years, and many colonies survive for 20 years. [Wikipedia]

[gcsnelling]

That tooth does not look right in that image, we need a better shot. However based on where you found them I would say they are not P. subnitidus.

[dspdrew]

Is there a reason why you're posting all your pictures as links and not images? You've actually got URLs to the pictures themselves.

[marcel]

I fixed the pictures. Sorry

Edited by marcel, September 22 2017 - 6:19 AM.