52 replies to this topic

[noebl1]

Do you have the file link that you can post here?

Which file?

[noebl1]

I just put them into hibernation  .  They are still foraging, but barely, and seeing very few insects outside as temps are sinking into 40s/50s during the day and 30s at night.   If I add food, now only 1 or 2 comes out if at all, versus a dozen or more just a week or two ago, so definitely slowed down.  Basement is down to 62F on it's way to 40s/50s during winter, so they'll at least have a gradual cool down.  Really bumming as enjoy watching them in my office.  Hoping they make it thru the hibernation. 

 

Time to get some formicarium designs finalized and finished before Spring/Summer.  Also need to figure out a table/shelving location to place them and outworlds and such on next season.  I have a bunch of L. Alienus, L. nearcticus or L. flavus, L. Neoniger, a couple Myrmecina americana, and a Camponotus Americana already in hibernation.  Only queen out is a P. Imparis another member gave me, but I don't think she's fertile. 

[MichiganAnts]

are you doing a cold floor hibernation? i am aswell, and today finally (i hibernated them october 14th) i can see my queens in the "dead state" aka not moving but legs twitching. however that only my 3 queens in tubes that are directly touching the floor. my 2 in nests are still somewhat active, although sluggish

[Solenoqueen]

 

Do you have the file link that you can post here?

Which file?

 

The test tube portal printing file   

[noebl1]

are you doing a cold floor hibernation? i am aswell, and today finally (i hibernated them october 14th) i can see my queens in the "dead state" aka not moving but legs twitching. however that only my 3 queens in tubes that are directly touching the floor. my 2 in nests are still somewhat active, although sluggish

 

My basement cools down to the 40s/50s over the winter months, and a gradual chill down.  Right now low 60s, while last month it was upper 60s, so by end of Dec should be 50s, and then upper 40s in Jan in a cold winter, then start climbing back up in Feb.  They are in an open top box on a shelf since I have little kids who like to get into things  Shelf is about the middle of the basement, opposite the garage door and furnace locations.  I may test the floor temp out of curiosity to see what it is and move them lower to a place the kids can't get into them.  Aside from many Camponotus species that live in rotten wood in trees and fallen logs, a lot of these ants species live in the ground I am keeping.  So I wonder how quickly the soil cools off vs the air to all of a sudden be 40 degrees in Oct/Nov when we put them into fridges and such.  Going to put a temperature/humidity sensor Wifi monitor in the box with a NodeMCU once I get an enclosure for it printed.

 

Last week I checked on the Lasius I put down there last month, and they were all hibernating in low 60s; in that "dead state" you described.  I could lift the test tubes and they didn't even budge (as a matter of fact, one fell on it's back and I thought it was dead, then slowly turned itself over).

[MichiganAnts]

ah ok, mine are laying bare on the cold basement floor. i look forward to raising my own tetra sp e next year along with my Camponotus

[noebl1]

Taking too long for basement temp to drop (still sitting around 61F) as not terribly cold outside, so broke down today and ordered a wine fridge capable of going down to the 40s F.  The Tetramorium are still foraging a bit, and noticed even one of my L. Alienus actually had a couple nanitics hatch in the last 2 weeks. FWIW for those worried about Lasius with wings and being fertile, she definitely hasn't dropped her wings, and the two that recently eclosed don't seem to be males.  

 

I ended up ordering one of the open-box wine fridges off Amazon via Prime, so price was almost $100 off. So even if a bit scratched up, still a great price.  Going to set the temp to the 50s for a week or so, and then drop it to 40s to attempt to acclimate them a bit vs dropping them too cold within a couple hours.  I have some inexpensive wifi sensor units coming in from Wemos in China  that I am going to use to monitor inside the fridge.  

[MichiganAnts]

i ended up frideing mine at 36F and they are fine

[noebl1]

Wine cooler arrived and boy was it a steal.  Normally $137-$140 and I got it for $45 as an Amazon Warehouse open box ( https://www.amazon.c...duct/B00CQ1O3NG).  It indeed goes down to 46F, however noticed that if it looses power, it defaults back to 52F, so may throw a small UPS on it to keep it going until the generator kicks in.   Every once in awhile I get lucky with Amazon Warehouse deals, and only (knock on wood) had one bad item they happily took back without a problem.

 

It's the *real* hibernation day now 

Edited by noebl1, November 22 2016 - 1:13 PM.

[MichiganAnts]

good luck!! 

[noebl1]

Thanks!  No joke, finally had a cold front come through and temps starting to drop in the basement... figures 

 

 

 

[MichiganAnts]

yea its finally cold in my basement too, but i am glad i fridged mine. its a constant 36F and all my ants are fine (even though people say 40F is the lowest)

[noebl1]

Got some of the smaller BoxBox containers in, and the 90mm wide one is about the right size of the 3x4" small formicariums I am working on for the Spring.  Working on creating a template to fit into the top (so the formicarium sites on top of it to use it as a reservoir like dspdrew's designs.)  Looks like the template works as expected:

 

Now to update the formicarium design and get ready to start some more official test prints 

[noebl1]

After a bit of design time, finally printed my first full size prototype, and indeed fit nice and snug over the BoxBox container

 

Comments / Lessons learned so far:

• Ignore the terrible print job, I used a different slicing app as was having issues rendering on my normal one (turned out to be a bad svg import).  This resulted in horrible top layer infill, sloppy perimeters, etc
• New version in pics below have fixed the svg that was imported, so it can now render and slice it properly
• Also made it flush to the size of edge (so no more lip on the two sides)
• Noticed I was over-zealous for the glass size for buffer (by 2mm  ), so next version adjusts for smaller glass pieces I have
• I may add small tabs on the sides I can cut with an X-acto if needed to make sure glass fits snug (especially due to variance in size) as I don't want to glue the glass on if possible in case I need to do cleaning (this may change...)
• Need to adjust paths a bit as well from chamber to chamber (just noticed still a couple bottlenecks)
• I still plan on filling the open area with hydrostone, but now thinking instead of printing it open and adding in sections, just print to the amount I need as means less mess with the hydrostone.

Edited by noebl1, November 27 2016 - 2:35 PM.

[noebl1]

Looks like they are doing ok during hibernation, I dropped the temp again this weekend and have them down to about 48F.  Checking on them every few days and they are foraging a bit, and active, but pretty slowed down.

 

Had some time to print next rev of my formicarium design.  Something is out of alignment on the printer, and I got overzealous on the retraction setting to eliminate strings, but infilled suffered a bit as a result.  Regardless print was good enough for use and proves the glass will fit as I wanted, still fits snug into the BoxBox top, and the tubing fits nicely as well.  Only downside is it took 6.5hrs to print  Was a long evening.  Even though it took longer than the other slicer to print, I like how Slic3r does it's layers as instead of putting a top layer flush to a wall, it will overhang the layer a couple MM so the wall is built on the layer itself.  Means less chance of escapees and much more solid.  Other reason it took a lot longer to print was I infilled a good chunk and raised the floor level to 5mm so they weren't towering chasms and more like chambers.  Next steps is to fill the empty area with hydrostone (picked up some cake decorating bags to help squeeze it into the tight space.)

 

I may give away to anyone that wants it the one I printed 11/27 as I have no use for it as a bit too big for the glass I got, but someone is welcome to have it (and cut their own acrylic sheet to fit it).

 

 

 

[sgheaton]

Nice. I think your model is right on track (for what I would bet my beans on) for not hydrating the whole thing, but instead doing a ...40% of it. I'm curious that (my next year formicarium) will have be the same thing but with only a small 5-10% square as the ONLY hydration point. 

Heck...with 3D Printing... you could make micron pipet tubes and reroute water to other areas of the formicarium. Either way, I like it. Well done. 

[noebl1]

@sgheaton  Thanks for the feedback!   I had thought about doing pipets, but I am not as familiar with handling the capillary action with water, so wasn't quite sure what to engineer there.  Guess it's time to do some reading

 

Another option that's nice with the printer is to do what dspdrew does where you use tile and print the exact size you need.  I had thought about doing that where a small piece of tile on one side instead of hydrostone. However one challenge was not making a mess doing a support structure to remove once printed to insert the tile into, and the other was I could have made a large chamber big enough for the tile, but then with these tiny ants, would look a bit strange.

 

Next up is to get the top of the BobBox container drilled, measure out holes and create a tube to hold the sponge as well as a simple cap system so I can open the cap to add water vs whole top.  Once I get this into a good state, I'll start publishing the STLs. (Also need to figure out how to attach them here.)

Edited by noebl1, December 5 2016 - 7:06 AM.

[noebl1]

On a side note... already started sourcing parts to build a new printer based on the Core-XY design.  Hopefully in about 6mos I'll be about to print 12x12x8"

 

EDIT:  Also had the idea for a low-profile version. The reason it's so tall is due to the tubing.  However  if I move the tubing out (so basically outside of the nest areas) and connected via a tunnel, I could have a very shallow nest, with external "blocks" where the tubing slides into.  Could in theory be used for stacking if I didn't care about hydration.  Hopefully during our shutdown coming up I can start designing this

Edited by noebl1, December 5 2016 - 7:14 AM.

[noebl1]

All three groups are still alive, sitting around 46F, and in a semi-circle around the queen and any larvae.

 

Took the time today to play with Hydrostone.  Bit of a learning experience.  I put down a large flat tile for flatness, then put a silicone baking sheet over it.  I taped the formicarium down to keep it from moving:

 

After taped in place, I mixed up the Hydrostone in a plastic baggy after measuring it all out with a scale.  Cut a small bag in the corner of the bag, and begin to pour.  Came out MUCH faster than I was expecting, even though it was a thick consistency.  Overfilled a bit, however ok with that considering first time I am doing this.  My daughter gave me the star "For doing a good job."  Can always print another one:

 

I let it set for an hour, and it came right off the silicone without a problem.  While it was setting and I was cleaning up, managed to knock the water over into the pan all over it  However think it's ok.  Once it set enough to remove, flipped it over and was wet on the bottom too from the water I spilled... right now drying out but think it's ok.  That smudged mark in silver is "v1.9" for the version of the formicarium print.

 

I may sand the bottom a bit once dry so it's nice and flush.

Edited by noebl1, January 21 2017 - 1:20 PM.

[noebl1]

Also think next time will use some clay to keep it where I want it when I pour.